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By John Philip Zannaras

John Philip Zannaras (Registered Professional Engineer, Congress, Ariz.)- The authors show in their [Fig. 4] the cumulative results of grinding with two sizes of bails, one 30 mm and the other 20 mm. The Gaudin-Meloy probability for breakage for a single fall used by the authors in their paper is given by their [Eq. 6]. Another form of [Eq. 6] is given by Gaudin-Meloy in their paper as follows: [ ] From the definition of A given by Gaudin-Meloy it is obvious that A30 is greater than A., it therefore follows from the foregoing equation that according to the Gaudin-Meloy formula the probability of breakage for a single fall of all the balls in the 20-mm experiment was more than 2.25 times the probability of breakage in a single fall of all the 30-mm balls which is contradicted by the authors' experimental evidence in [Fig. 4] in which is shown that much more grinding took place with the 30-mm balls. In fact the authors present convincing evidence that the Gaudin-Meloy work is erroneous because their work is based only on a geometric configuration and on ambiguous and uncertain definition of A and disregards the fact that the distribution of fracture depends on other important and indispensable factors including the intensity of stress caused on the feed grain by the balls. That there is an immense and chaotic variation of stresses caused on the feed grains by the balls is shown by a formula, derived by this writer and published in 1955. The derivation of this formula is given in the Appendix of this discussion; it contains the variables in the operation of ball mills and is based on the science of mechanics-not on probabilities. [ ] where T is the unit stress in pounds per square inch produced by the moving load, h is the height in feet through which P has fallen, E is the modulus of elasticity of the rock, P is weight of one ball, and L is the size of the grain (assumed to be a cube of side L). It will be shown by this writer's formula that when a 30-mm ball strikes any size of feed grain it will cause 1.837 times higher stress than the 20-mm ball when striking the same size grain. It will be shown that when the 30-mm ball or the 20-mm ball strikes a feed grain of 0.1 mm it will cause 90 times more stress on the grain than when it strikes a 2-mm grain.

Jan 1, 1974

Geostatistics originated as an application of a classical statistical concept, multivariate linear regression, to the solution of a practical problem, estimation of reserves in the South African gold mines. In this respect, geostatistics should only be considered as one statistical method among many that can be used to evaluate mineral deposits. R.F. Shurtz has studied possible applications of power spectrum analysis to the same problem, and these studies may result in future improvements over the presently accepted geostatistical methodology. The intention of R.F. Shurtz's paper, as stated by the author, is to "relate geostatistical doctrine to classical statistical and mathematical concepts." However, in this comparison the "geostatistical doctrine" appears to include only the simplest among the geostatistical concepts advocated by G. Matheron, while "classical statistical and mathematical concepts" are limited nearly exclusively to power spectrum analysis. The author attempts to compare the two methods, and to prove the theoretical superiority of power spectrum analysis. Unfortunately, a number of errors and incorrect statements are made concerning both the theory and application of geostatistics, which invalidate the comparison and the conclusions drawn from it. The errors made in this comparison are understandable since few scientists can claim to have expertise in two theories as diverse as those compared here. In many respects, this paper is reminiscent of polemics which occurred 15 to 20 years ago when geostatistics and trend surface analysis were compared. Each method has its own merit and limitations, and none can claim absolute superiority. The most misleading statements found in R.F. Shurtz's paper are: The definition of the semivariogram given on page 1923 is incorrect. If the maximum difference between two assays is 1, the maximum value of the semivariogram is not 1, as stated, but 0.5. The comparison of geostatistics and linear regression made in the section entitled "Insufficiency of Classical Statistics?" is not valid. The semivariogram of the sample values given in Table 1 (page 1919) has a parabolic shape indicative of a linear drift. When such a semivariogram is observed, the simplest method of geostatistical estimation (linear kriging with unknown mean) is not applicable. Universal kriging must be used that takes trends into account. On page 1921 it is stated that the use of trends "is officially disparaged in geostatistics." Again on page 1924 mention is made to "Matheron's commitment to random process (intrinsic) models and his present categorical rejection of deterministic (trend) models for mineral deposit evaluation." Indeed, from articles published by geostatisticians in the 1960s one could infer that geostatistical methods are not compatible with the presence of trends. However, even the simplest

Jan 1, 1984

By P. S. Roller

P. S. ROLLER,* College Park, Md.-The author introduces the idea of a grind limit, or lower size limit of the particles formed directly by grinding, and this is stipulated to be 0.70 micron. I wonder where all the particles come from that lie between the resolving power of the microscope and 0.7 micron, which are seen under a microscope in examining a sample of grind? There is also introduced the idea of excess fines; this is all right in itself but the author's quantitative definition seems to be virtually impossible to justify, and, moreover, is obscure. Just why E, the excess fines, should be defined as the distance between an F line and a [?] line is hard to follow, and just where the distance should be measured does not appear to be stated, as it should be since the F and [?] lines intersect and the distance between will depend upon where that distance is measured. The basis of the presentation is the relation of log weight against log size that was "discovered" by Schuhmann. While this relation is implied to fit, the only evidence that I can see is a slightly irregular line in Fig. I between 2 per cent and 18 per cent by weight and then a precipitous drop at 18 per cent away from any sort of straight line. Some of the conclusions are rather startling. It is stated that E, the excess fines, remains constant for all the comminution products of any particular material, except that it may decrease for some coarse crusher products. No reason is given for this assertion. One would, on the contrary, expect that excess fines, if such a concept is permissible, would generally vary with different conditions instead of being constant. Again, "as much net energy is required to reduce a ton of quartz to particles of the grind-limit diameter (namely, of course, 0.7 micron) by grinding as is required to melt the quartz," This would require many data to prove, but no proof is given; any considera¬tion would reveal the impossibility of such a result. Still further, ore samples "ground to widely different sizes, and with different circulating loads and different size distributions or product, show the same production of new surface area per revolution of the mill, when this grind limit is used." This statement is confuted by ordinary experience, which teaches that grinding efficiency varies generally with the condition of material. For example, the cushioning effect of fines is widely accepted, while the inefficiency of a ball mill when the feed is too coarse is also well known. R. SCHUHMANN, JR.,* Cambridge, Mass.¬Contrary to Mr. Bond's stand, there is a great deal of miscellaneous experimental evidence that comminution does not stop at around 0.7 micron, nor does it cease consuming energy at that point. Comminution is in fact recognized as an important method of producing colloids.5 Mechanical comminution methods were used by von Weimarn6 to produce colloidal dispersions of a variety of solids, including the minerals chalcocite, galena, hematite, stibnite. Utzino7 gives average particle sizes ranging from 0.02 to 0.09 micron for colloids produced by mechanical comminution of several crystalline solids. Andreasen and Berg8 have ground

Jan 1, 1941

By P. S. Roller

P. S. ROLLER,*College Park, Md.-The author introduces the idea of a grind limit, or lower size limit of the particles formed directly by grinding, and this is stipulated to be 0.70 micron. I wonder where all the particles come from that lie between the resolving power of the microscope and 0.7 micron, which are seen under a microscope in examining a sample of grind? There is also introduced the idea of excess fines; this is all right in itself but the author's quantitative definition seems to be virtually impossible to justify, and, moreover, is obscure. Just why E, the excess fines, should he defined as the distance between an F line and a y line is hard to follow, and just where the distance should be measured does not appear to be stated, as it should be since the F and y lines intersect and the distance between will depend upon where that distance is measured. The basis of the presentation is the relation of log weight against log size that was "discovered" by Schuhmann. While this relation is implied to fit, the only evidence that I can see is a slightly irregular line in Fig. x between 2 per cent and 18 per cent by weight and then a precipitous drop at 18 per cent away from any sort of straight line. Some of the conclusions are rather startling. It is stated that E, the excess fines, remains constant for all the comminution products of any particular material, except that it may decrease for some coarse crusher products. No reason is given for this assertion. One would, on the contrary, expect that excess fines, if such a concept is permissible, would generally vary with different conditions instead of being constant. Again, "as much net energy is required to reduce a ton of quartz to particles of the grind-limit diameter (namely, of course, 0.7 micron) by grinding as is required to melt the quartz." This would require many data to prove, but no proof is given; any consideration would reveal the impossibility of such a result. Still further, ore samples "ground to widely different sizes, and with different circulating loads and different size distributions or product, show the same production of new surface area per revolution of the mill, when this grind limit is used." This statement is confuted by ordinary experience, which teaches that grinding efficiency varies generally with the condition of material. For example, the cushioning effect of fines is widely accepted, while the inefficiency of a ball mill when the feed is too coarse is also well known. R. SCHUHMANN, JR.," Cambridge, Mass. Contrary to Mr. Bond's stand, there is a great deal of miscellaneous experimental evidence that comminution does not stop at around 0.7 micron, nor does it cease consuming energy at that point. Comminution is in fact recognized as an important method of producing colloids., Mechanical comminution methods were used by von Weimarn6 to produce colloidal dispersions of a variety of solids, including the minerals chalcocite, galena, hematite, stibnite. Utzino7 gives average particle sizes ranging from 0.02 to 0.09 micron for colloids produced by mechanical comminution of several crystalline solids. Andreasen and Berg' have ground

Jan 1, 1941

By P. S. Roller

P. S. ROLLER,* College Park, Md.-The author introduces the idea of a grind limit, or lower size limit of the particles formed directly by grinding, and this is stipulated to be 0.70 micron. I wonder where all the particles come from that lie between the resolving power of the microscope and 0.7 micron, which are seen under a microscope in examining a sample of grind? There is also introduced the idea of excess fines; this is all right in itself but the author's quantitative definition seems to be virtually impossible to justify, and, moreover, is obscure. Just why E, the excess fines, should be defined as the distance between an F line and a y line is hard to follow, and just where the distance should be measured does not appear to be stated, as it should be since the F and y lines intersect and the distance between will depend upon where that distance is measured. The basis of the presentation is the relation of log weight against log size that was "discovered" by Schuhmann. While this relation is implied to fit, the only evidence that I can see is a slightly irregular line in Fig. I between 2 per cent and 18 per cent by weight and then a precipitous drop at 18 per cent away from any sort of straight line. Some of the conclusions are rather startling, It is stated that E, the excess fines, remains constant for all the comminution products of any particular material, except that it may decrease for some coarse crusher products. No reason is given for this assertion. One would, on the contrary, expect that excess fines, if such a concept is permissible, would generally vary with different conditions instead of being constant. Again, "as much net energy is required to reduce a ton of quartz to particles of the grind-limit diameter (namely, of course, 0.7 micron) by grinding as is required to melt the quartz." This would require many data to prove, but no proof is given; any consideration would reveal the impossibility of such a result. Still further, ore samples "ground to widely different sizes, and with different circulating loads and different size distributions or product, show the same production of new surface area per revolution of the mill, when this grind limit is used." This statement is confuted by ordinary experience, which teaches that grinding efficiency varies generally with the condition of material. For example, the cushioning effect of fines is widely accepted, while the inefficiency of a ball mill when the feed is too coarse is also well known. R. SCHUHMANN, JR.,* Cambridge, Mass.-Contrary to Mr. Bond's stand, there is a great deal of miscellaneous experimental evidence that comminution does not stop at around 0.7 micron, nor does it cease consuming energy at that point. Comminution is in fact recognized as an important method of producing colloids.5 Mechanical comminution methods were used by von Weimarn6 to produce colloidal dispersions of a variety of solids, including the minerals chalcocite, galena, hematite, stibnite. Utzino7 gives average particle sizes ranging from 0.02 to 0.09 micron for colloids produced by mechanical comminution of several crystal-line solids. Andreasen and Berg8 have ground

Jan 1, 1941

By Stephen Royce

[PAGE Ground Movement Adjacent to a Caving Block in the Climax Molybdenum Mine (TP 2000 by JOHN W. VANDERWILT, Min. Tech., May 1946. Discussion by STEPHEN ROYCE and the Studies of the Design of Shaped Explosive Charges and Their Effect in Breaking Concrete Blocks (TP 2157 by GEORGE B. CLARK, Min. Tech. May 1947. Discussion by PHILIP B. BUCKY, V. H. CLARK, E. D. GARDNER, M. H. HAWKINS, H. L. WALKER, and the author) 2 See TP 2377, Min. Tech., May 1948 for discussion of San Manuel ProsPect (TP 2255 by H. J. STEELE and G. R. RUBLY, Min. Tech., Sept. 1947. Discussion by L. KENNETH WILSON, ELDRED D. WILSON and the authors)] Ground Movement Adjacent to a Caving Block in the Climax Molybdenum Mine STEPHEN ROYCE•-It is interesting to note from B, Fig 2, how closely the subsidence limits approximate to the 60° angle of draw, which is so commonly found to rule in large scale rock subsidence. The tension cracks shown at B are commonly found in the initial stages of subsidence movement and spread like a halo about subsidence limits as movement extends. These tension cracks usually grow into escarpments later on. Apparently from the illustrations and description given, a system of vertical fractures is the predominating weakness in the wall rock at Climax, and therefore both tension cracks and escarpments are prevailingly vertical in attitude. The illustrations in Mr. Vanderwilt's article seem to conform to the general rule that yield by subsidence is heralded by tension cracks which foreshadow the appearance of the subsidence scarps which are both described in the paper and shown in Fig 2. The difference between the B side and the A side of Fig 2 is apparently caused mainly by the vertical fracturing which controls subsidence at Climax as compared to the relatively homogeneous rock formation at A upon which the original figure in Peele's Handbook was based. The draw at B is exactly 60°, while the draw at A is a little flatter. The influence of the vertical fractures explains the difference. The surprising feature is the relatively small deviation from the general 60° draw line, which is about the average of rock subsidence experience. The influence of local fracture systems, faults and bedding in controlling subsidence all the way from extremely low angles of draw to vertical is rather fully discussed in the Peele's Handbook article referred to. The more illustrations of subsidence there are published the better will be our knowledge. The general principles are pretty well established. The wide local differences reflect the effect of local conditions. This paper is a very valuable contribution to the subject, and for the benefit of the mining industry, it is to be hoped that there will be many more such clear and concise presentations. Particularly block caving is apt to be of greatly increasing importance in the future of a mining industry that must meet high labor costs. More examples of block caving from small scale to large scale operations like those at Climax will serve a vital need. JOHN W. VANDERWILT (author's reply)-I would like to thank Mr. Royce for his discussion; however, in his comments the meaning of subsidence, draw and tension cracks is not entirely clear. As used in my discussion of subsidence at Climax, subsidence refers to movements involving appreciable downward displacement. Tension cracks indicate only

Jan 1, 1947

By W. J. Locher

One important means of reducing steel consumption in grinding mills is not mentioned in S.G. Malghan's paper. It is simply to reduce the oxygen content in the mill and pulp. While oxygen dissolved in pulp is not readily reduced without additives, reduced aeration and reduced ventilation of grinding mills are often feasible. It is not necessary to completely eliminate the oxygen to achieve substantial benefits, since corrosion rates vary with oxygen content in a manner analogous to combustion rates as oxygen content increases. It is difficult to generate indisputable quantitative data on the relationship of oxygen reduction in a milling system to changes in consumption of grinding steel. Perhaps this accounts for the absence of technical papers on the effects of reducing oxygen content in grinding mills by reducing aeration of pulp and ventilation of grinding mills. One qualitative observation is that mills operating at a lower percent of critical speed will tend to have lower media consumption for similar fineness of grind without necessarily having an equivalent reduction in power consumption per ton of product. Reduced mill speed would also tend to reduce both ventilation of the mill and entrainment of air in the pulp. Larger grinding mills tend to be more media efficient because they operate at a greater ratio of charge volume to pulp surface area, which will tend to reduce the aeration per unit of pulp volume. The mechanical steps required to reduce aeration of grinding mill pulps depend on the configuration of the grinding circuit and related process. Reply by S.G. Malghan Mr. Locher stated that my paper did not mention the reduction of oxygen content of the pulp as a potential method of decreasing the steel consumption. I would like to bring to the attention of Mr. Locher that an indirect reference was made to the fact that pulp oxidation potential controls the corrosion wear of steel. Though dissolved oxygen is one of the factors that controls oxidation potential, additional discussion was deliberately avoided for the reasons mentioned by Mr. Locher. The most important reason being the difficulty of decreasing and controlling the oxygen concentration of the pulp in a commercial mill.

Jan 1, 1984

By S. D. Michaelson

[CONTENTS PACE See TP 2377, Min. Tech, May 1948 for discussion of A Technique for Photographing Difficult Subjects through a Petrographic Microscope (TP 2092 by DONALD W. SCOTT, Min. Tech., Nov. 1946. Discussion by HORACE WINCHELL). Metallurgical Efficiency-a Yardstick in Lead-zinc Flotation Metallurgy (TP 2141 by R. A. ....... PALLANCH, Min. Tech:, March 1947. Discussion by S. D. MICHAELSON). I Symposium on Milling Devices and Practices. (TP 2162 by J. F. MYERS and R. J. TOWER, Min. Tech., May 1947. Discussion by HARLOWE HARDINGE). ............ 2 Rod Milling-Plant and Laboratory Data. (TP 2175 by J. F. MYERS, S. D. MICHAELSON and F. C. BOND, Min. Tech., July 1947. Authors' supplement and discussion by HARLOWE .......................... HARDINGE, and B. H. IRWIN) 2 A New Separating Vessel for Sink-float Concentration. (TP 2182 by E. C. BITZER, Min. Tech., May 1947. Discussion by E. H. CRABTREE, JR.) .................. 5] Metallurgical Efficiency-a Yardstick in Lead-zinc Flotation Metallurgy S. D, MICHAELSON*-The method of determining the efficacy of a separation described in this paper, gives the metallurgist a most useful guide for keeping his ship on an even keel When the ore Waves vary from placid seas to high breakers. Now that such a method of evaluating metallurgical efficiency has been developed and proven practical, it Would seem logical to introduce the next, and more final, factor of Economic Efficiency. I choose to define this term as the percentage ratio of net return from milling to the theoretical maximum net return. The actual operating cost subtracted from the actual mill return represents the net actual amount received for the material treated. Experienced operators of most plants Would ordinarily have enough data on hand to estimate a theoretical milling cost per ton, based on labor, power, supplies and maintenance When operating at maximum tonnage With minimum trouble and under ideal ore conditions. When this theoretical estimated cost is subtracted from the theoretical maximum ore return (calculated by Pallanch's method) the resulting figure is the maximum theoretical net amount the mill operator could hope to realize in processing the ore. The percentage ratio of these sums, of actual to theoretical, is the economic efficiency of the operations. This economic efficiency, if determined on the basis of a fixed market price for metal and similarly fixed base rates for labor, power and supplies, Will reflect the effect of changes in milling practice, labor efficiency and equipment condition. When computations made on the basis of actual current rates for labor, power and supplies are compared With similar actual figures for past periods they will show forcefully how energetic our hunt must be to develop man saving controls, more effective metallurgy, and better equipment to maintain profitable operations. Such computations also offer a simple means of determining how much more labor, supplies and power can be put into the mill operation to obtain an increase in metallurgical recovery at a profit.

Jan 1, 1947

By M. D. Hassialis

[Surface Areas of Concentrates and Collector Coatings (T.P. 2002, by A. M. GAUDIN and G. S. PRELLER, Min. Tech., May. Discussion by M. D. HASSIALIS and the authors) . I Activation of Minerals and Adsorption of Collectors (T.P. 2082 by J. ROGERS and K. 1'. SUTHERLAND, Min. Tech., Nov. Discussion by A. F. TAGGART and the authors). . . . 3 Correlation between Mineral Behavior in Cataphoresis and in Flotation (T.P. 2005 by A. If. GAUDIN and S. C. SUN, Min. Tech., May. Discussion by M. D. HASSIALIS). . . . . . 8] Surface Areas of Concentrates and Collector Coatings M. D. HASSIALIS.*-In the current flotation theories there exists a common gap spanned by a common assumption pertaining to the arrangement and orientation of the collector ions at the solid surface. Also common is the belief that contact angle and flotation performance are dependent upon the arrangement and orientation of collector ions. This stimulating and informative paper sheds some light upon this general problem. One of the indices of arrangement is the area available per collector ion; in this connection, Gaudin and Preller have applied the B.E.T. method for surface determinations. In a surprising number of cases, their results show a greater specific surface for tailing than for concentrate. This cannot be accounted for by the differences in specific gravity and is attributed to the presence of clay minerals of "primary" sluices in the tailing. This is not a satisfactory explanation, for experience shows that when free slimed clay minerals are present in a flotation cell they will be carried mechanically into the concentrate. A part of the answer to the decreased specific surface of the concentrate would appear to be its usual flocculated condition, yet this should not entirely account for the large spreads reported. The possibility occurs that the nitrogen adsorption isotherms for clean mineral and collector-coated mineral are different. If that were true, and if the coated mineral surface exhibited decreased adsorptive powers, the discrepancy might vanish. In discussing the disposition of collector ions at mineral surfaces, the authors adopt the more consistent viewpoint that there exists some agreement between the ions of the substrate and those of the superstrate. In the case of xanthate ions on galena, a possible arrangement is shown in Fig. 2. This arrangement shows every xanthate ion being shared by two lead ions, whereas the chemical composition calls for two xanthate ions for each lead ion (p. g). This whole discussion is misleading. In the first place, it is known that xanthate ions are not abstracted by unoxidized galena, hence Fig. 2 should show as the substrate not Pbs but PbS„ Om. It would be equally erroneous to use the lattice arrangement of PGSO4, since the surface properties of xanthate-conditioned anglesite differ from those of xanthated galena. It is highly probable that the state of the galena surface exploited in its flotation is ephemeral, since weathered galena is only poorly, if at all, collected by xanthate. Just how a substrate of oxidized galena is to be pictured depends upon one's conception of the transformation from galena to anglesite. This writer is inclined to the following sequence of events. Surface sulphide ions undergo progressive oxidation. As more oxygen is taken up by the sulphide ions they become displaced from their equilibrium positions in the galena lattice, thus accommodating for the larger volume of the S„ Om ions. Concomittant with this change the forces acting on the lead ions

Jan 1, 1946

By Harlowe Hardinge

[Crushing Tests by Pressure and Impact (T.P. 1895, by F. C. BOND,, Min. Tech. Jan. 1946). Discussion by H. HARDINGE and the author 1 Pumping Sands, Slurries and Slimes and Installation and Performance of Sand Pumps (T.P. 2013, by W. B. STEPHENSON, Min. Tech., May 1946 and T.P. 1978, by C. G. SOUTHMAYD, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by OSCAR LEE, G. J. HOLT, L. D. ANDERSON, and the author 2 Rapid Polarographic Method for Determination of Copper, Zinc and Lead in Flotation Tailings (T.P. 2010, by G. A. CROWE and W. T. BISHOP, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by E. H. ROSE and the authors 4 Ball Wear and Functioning of the Ball Load in a Fine-grinding Ball Mill (T.P. 1984, by W. I. GARMS and J. L. STEVENS, Min. Tech., March 1946). Discussion by J. F. MYERS, E. W. DAVIS, F. M. JARDINE, H. HARDINGE, F. C. BOND and the authors 5 Correlation between Mineral Behavior in Cataphoresis and Flotation (T.P. 2005, by A. M. GAUDIN and S. C. SuN, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by 0. C. RALSTON, G. L. SIMARD and D. J. SALLEY 7 Accident Experience in Milling (T.P. 1981, by J. F. MYERS and S. E. SHARP, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by C. E. MCKNIGHT, C. H. BENEDICT, T. S. WILSON and S. POWER WARREN9 Mill Design for Labor Economy (T.P. 1997, by NORMAN WEISS, Min. Tech., May 1946). Discussion by R. S. HANDY and the author13] Crushing Tests by Pressure and Impact (0.C. Ralston presiding) HARLOWE HARDINGE.*-Has the impact method described in the paper been used to compare the resistance to reduction in size of various materials with actual operation results of mills in the field? Is this impact method a better index of the true resistance to grinding under actual field conditions than other methods the author has reported in the TRANSACTIONS? F. C. BOND (author's reply).-The impact crushing device was designed to measure relative resistance to crushing, or what may be called the crushability, and is not used for comparing the resistance to grinding, or grindability. The correlation between crushability and grindability of different materials is not at all close, since fractures, zones of weakness, and structural features of rock have a much greater effect upon the crushability than upon the grindability. We still depend upon our standard grindability tests for measuring resistance to grinding, and use the impact crushing tests only in relation to crusher installations. The impact crushing device has several advantages over the measurement of crushing strength in pounds per square inch as an index of crushing resistance.

Jan 1, 1946

By C. W. Hunt

I wish to register strong disagreement with the choices of drilling sites chosen by the Continental Scientific Drilling Committee, while endorsing the stated objectives. Of special significance is the lack of any site involving the metals most needed today in the US, while 9 to 13 km of drilling are allocated to gold and silver districts and 11 to 17 km to base metal (mainly copper) districts. Why is nothing proposed for platinum group or chromite? Is this because the committee did not know of such a site? If so, I offer such a site in California (see Fig. 1). The mineralization shown in Table 1 occurs in a large peridotite body in western Tehama County, CA. Petrography has demonstrated unequivocal evidence of migrated PGE deposited in peridotite and chromite of hypabyssal nature. Active diapirism (due probably to serpentine buoyancy) above a reactivated mantle to surface conduit marks the position of the conduit. Young explosion breccia cemented loosely by volcanic glass and tuff demonstrates the significance of the conduit as the prime source of the various emissions. Deep drilling could result in major metals discoveries as well as shedding light on the grand questions of platinum group mineralization. What role water has played in this occurrence is not yet certain; but chlorine and asphaltite have been detected in and adjacent to native PGM, suggesting a major role for water. The explosion breccia suggests that this excellent site could overlie entrapped geothermal steam.

Jan 1, 1988

By C. Meyer, J. J. Eidel

C. W. Hunt I wish to register strong disagreement with the choices of drilling sites chosen by the Continental Scientific Drilling Committee, while endorsing the stated objectives. Of special significance is the lack of any site involving the metals most needed today in the US, while 9 to 13 km of drilling are allocated to gold and silver districts and 11 to 17 km to base metal (mainly copper) districts. Why is nothing proposed for platinum group or chromite? Is this because the committee did not know of such a site? If so, I offer such a site in California (see Fig. 1). The mineralization shown in Table 1 occurs in a large peridotite body in western Tehama County, CA. Petrography has demonstrated unequivocal evidence of migrated PGE deposited in peridotite and chromite of hypabyssal nature. Active diapirism (due probably to serpentine buoyancy) above a reactivated mantle to surface conduit marks the position of the conduit. Young explosion breccia cemented loosely by volcanic glass and tuff demonstrates the significance of the conduit as the prime source of the various emissions. Deep drilling could result in major metals discoveries as well as shedding light on the grand questions of platinum group mineralization. What role water has played in this occurrence is not yet certain; but chlorine and asphaltite have been detected in and adjacent to native PGM, suggesting a major role for water. The explosion breccia suggests that this excellent site could overlie entrapped geothermal steam.

Jan 6, 1987

By A. D. Mutch

This contribution is prompted by the fact that the writer has recently published an article" which has in part the same general conclusions as B. S. Butler's, namely, the form of the standard mineral paragenesis in hypogene deposits and the parallel transition from early high temperature acid to late low temperature alkaline or neutral solutions. Since the writer also recognizes that he is not fully qualified to discuss the formation of ore deposits as a chemical problem, this discussion will be limited to summarizing other observations and will suggest how Butler's Table II might be made more effective. The form of Butler's table is not unlike that widely used by European geologists30 in which the various minerals are related to the types of ore fluids-pegmatitic, pneumatolic and hydrothermal. Thus the decrease in temperature and change in pH of the ore- bearing fluids as recognized by Butler may also be paralleled by perhaps even greater changes in composition, density, and character.

Jan 5, 1958

By Walter W. Bradley

(Three, papers included, in this discussion are classified as Mining Geology and also as one of the following-A, Metal Mining: B, Milling and Concentration: L, Geophysics. These papers are TP 2255, TP 2092 and TP 2038.) CONTENTS [PAGE Review of Fluorescence as Applied to Minerals, with Special Reference to Scheelite. (TP 1967 by J. W. VANDERWILT, Min. Tech., March 1946. Discussion by WALTER W. BRADLEY) I Geologic Interpretation of Magnetic Exploration on the Mesabi Range, Minnesota. (TP 2038 by R. B. H. JONES, Min. Tech., July 1946. Discussion by ROBERT B. SOSMAN) I A Technique for Photographing Difficult Subjects through a Petrographic Microscope. (TP 2092 by DONALD W. SCOTT, Min. Tech., Nov. 1946. Discussion by HORACE WINCHELL) 2 The Search for Concealed Deposits-a Reorientation of Philosophy. (TP 2146 by SAMUEL G. LASKY, Min. Tech., May 1947. Discussion by T. M. BRODERICK)3 Occurrence of Lead-zinc Ore at Iron King Mine, Prescott, Arizona. (TP 21 go by H. F. MILLS, Min. Tech., July 1947. Discussion by HUGH M. ROBERTS)3 Geologic Relations and New Ore Bodies of the Republic District, Washington. (TP 2197 by LAWRENCE B. WRIGHT, Min. Tech., July 1947. Discussion by AUGUSTUS LOCKE and J. A. RICHARDSON) 4 San Manuel Prospect. (TP 2255 by H. J. STEELE and G. R. RUBLY, Min. Tech., Sept. 1947. Discussion by L. KENNETH WILSON, ELDRED D. WILSON and the author) 5] Review of Fluorescence as Applied to Minerals, with Special Reference to Scheelite WALTER W. BRADLEY*-AS I recall, the first portable units for ultra-violet light of practical use with scheelite were developed at the Nevada-Massachusetts Tungsten Mine at Mill City, Nevada, and were used underground. Ultra-violet lamps are also installed there in the mill, above the gravity-concentration tables, for control observations. Geologic Interpretation of Magnetic Exploration on the Mesabi Range, Minnesota ROBERT B. SOSMAN*-When artificial precipitated magnetite is oxidized at a temperature in the vicinity of 100°C, the oxide is converted into a chocolate brown ferric oxide of the formula Fe2O3, free from ferrous iron, yet possessing the same magnetic susceptibility as the original Fe3O4. This form of Fe2O3 is variously called "ferromagnetic ferric oxide," " maghemite," or "gamma ferric oxide," and has been found as a natural mineral. If a body of magnetite in the Biwabik were to oxidize to this form, the oxidized and leached ore body might successfully conceal itself from Mr. Jones' survey by this ferromagnetic pretense. So far, gamma ferric oxide has not been found on the Minnesota iron ranges. I thought I had found some in the Hibbing pit in 1940, in a strongly magnetic specimen of soft ore differing in color from the prevailing hematite

Jan 1, 1947

By R. V. Colligan

[CONTENTS PACE Educating and Training Economic Geologists of the Future. By C. H. BEHRE, JR. (TP 2278, Min. Tech., Nov. 1948. Discussions by R. V. COLLIGAN and EVAN JUST) ....... I Mercury Industry in Italy. By EDWIN B. ECKEL. (TP 2292, Min. Tech., Jan. 1948. Discussion .............................. by C. N. SCHUETTE) 3 Chert in the Kingsport Formation at Mascot, Tennessee. By ARTHUR T. ALLEN. (TP 2299, ............... Min. Tech., Jan. 1948. Discussion by M. M. BUTLER) 5 Wall Rock Alteration at Butte, Montana. By RENO H. SALES and CHARLES MEYER. (TP 2400, Min. Tech., May 1948. Djscussions by C. D. HULIN, W. D. JOHNSTON, JR., and L. C. ................................... GRATON) 5] Educating and Training Economic Geologists of the Future R. V. COLLIGAN*-I can best illustrate my opinions by drafting another five year plan (Table 2). This plan is set up following the same stipulations outlined by Dr. Behre, namely: (I) the student is preparing himself for commercial work as a mining geologist; (2) he is attending an institution with a sufficiently broad curriculum (that is, engineering school and mining school as well as liberal arts college) to furnish the courses listed; and (3) he is not planning to continue his studies through to a doctor's degree before going into commercial work. A comparison of my study plan (Table 2) and that submitted by Dr. Behre (Table I) will at once point up the basic similarity, due to the obvious fact that there are so many essential courses which must be included in any outline of study. However, a more detailed analysis will show up certain differences, which, in fact, are only certain refinements on Dr. Behre's program. These I plan to discuss in order of their importance. The first and most important change is the addition of 12 hr of optional subjects, making a total of 24 hr of optional subjects as against a total of 12 hr under Dr. Behre's schedule. This of course entails the elimination of certain courses, which I shall discuss later. However, I wish to make it clear that I suggest eliminating these courses not because I feel that they are unnecessary, but rather because I feel the optional courses are more necessary to the complete education of the individual. I appreciate that Dr. Behre recognizes the importance of the cultural side of education, but I take issue with his thesis that the student will get it without credit and in his spare time. I do not think that the average college student, and certainly not the college freshman, is mature enough to know what he needs and where to get it in his spare time. I think it must be "spoon-fed"; he must be oriented through specific courses. University life (or should I say "college life") is too full of athletics, fraternity activities, dances, "bull sessions," and countless other enjoyable distractions, all of which contribute to the "full man." I fail to see how the average young American male can possibly sandwich in a necessary complement of "cultural activities" in his spare time. Since these latter activities do not fall within the pattern set by the "group," and show less promise of immediate return in enjoyment, or increased social status on the campus, they are bound to suffer in competition with the more popular, "group" activities. No doubt much of the criticism levelled against arts colleges, namely, that the cultural courses are useless, is well taken, for the culture

Jan 1, 1947

By M. M. Botz, F. W. DeVries

Discussion by F.W. DeVries Comments on natural cyanide attenuation. The paper by Botz and Mudder in the November 2000 issue of Minerals and Metallurgical Processing had one disappointing aspect. Table 1 (p. 229) failed to include a significant species - neutral copper cyanide (CuCN). This compound has been most trouble-some in many plant-scale cyanide cleanup processes, includ- ing acidification-volatilization- reneutralization (AVR), hy- drogen peroxide cleanup and air/SO2 cleanup. It has also plagued many pilot efforts to use ion-exchange (IX) resin technology. This author elucidated the concept that, under some conditions, copper cyanide failed to precipitate out of treated effluents and appeared to exist as a filterable colloid that reported as copper and cyanide, with the latter measured as WAD (weak-acid-dissociable) cyanide in that analytical method. The concentrations measured were very near the levels of 0.2 ppm, often the regulatory limit for WAD cyanide. The copper concentration, using the 1 : 1 ratio for this com- pound, would then be more than 0.4 ppm, which could also be unacceptable. We discovered that it was unsafe to assume that the Cu(CN),- would surrender both cyanide ions simultaneously and allow cupric copper to be removed subsequently as, say, cupric ferrocyanide (Hatchett's Brown). This compound could be ignored as safely as the "iron blues," as essentially an inert solid, stable in geologic time if not exposed to sunlight. Under poorly controlled oxidation of the cyanocuprite ions (copper with four, three or two cyanides complexed to the copper), CuCN could well be formed and could not be assumed to precipitate out as a solid. The authors of the paper, by failing to include the CuCN species in their model, may have left users of the model prone to ignore the possible occurrence of the colloidal(?) form in the discharge, thus finding an effluent that failed to meet regulatory limits. (See addendum below.) This somewhat ephemeral material may well have been responsible for some large-scale failures of cyanide destruction technology to succeed at sites in North America and elsewhere. Two specific references alluding to this occurrence may be found: Griffiths et al., 1987, "The detoxification of gold-mill tailings with hydrogen peroxide," Journal of the South African Institute of Mining and Metallurgy, September, p. 282. DeVries, 1989, "Improved understanding in detoxification of cyanide leach liquors using peroxide" Rand01 Gold Conference, Sacramento CA, p. 15 1. It is advisable for workers in this area of cyanide removal or recycle to avoid assuming that CuCN will, with certainty, precipitate out of solution, or that the dicyanocuprite ion will part simultaneously with both cyanide ions and allow cupric copper to be dealt with by other reactions. One further piece of work may be incomplete. That is, a definitive study of the long-term behavior of CuCN that does precipitate when exposed to other compounds present in neutralized tailings. Addendum. The extremely complex reaction of cupric ion on cyanide- which, of course, results in oxidation of cyanide to cyanate, probably through the intermediate stage of forming cyanogen [(CN)2] from oxidation of HCN with its hydrolysis to cyanate and cyanide ion - involves two cyanide moieties and the reduction of the cupric ion back again to the cuprous state. This, then, can form the CuCN potential "solid" that was already the undesirable species. In cyanide cleanup, with either air/SO2 or hydrogen peroxide, copper is generally employed as the catalyst, so it is unclear what happens when the CU(CN)2-1 is ultimately exhausted. Certainly, the field evidence is quite clear that all

Jan 1, 2002

By E. M. Spokes

A.B. Rushton The work and resulting publications of the Committee on Underground Coal Mine Safety and The President's Commission on Coal were appropriate at the time of publication. The statistics cited in the publications appeared to be valid, and the actions proposed by the committee had merit. Although the actions proposed to achieve further improvements in safety may have been worthy of repeating, to associate statistics (Table 1) that are seven to eight years old with company names is bad. Statistics are readily available from the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) and are usually within three months of being up to date. A review of the most recent Coal Controlling Co. Report will reveal significant changes in the rankings. The more recent statistics should have been cited, or at least compared with those used in the article. Westmoreland Coal Co. is listed as having a 21.1 disabling injury rate for the period (1/78-12/80). The disabling injury rate for the Company for the year ending 1985 was 7.4 for the underground mines and 6.25 for the total facilities. Through March 1986, the disabling rate for the underground mines was 2.86. The management and employees of Westmoreland Coal Co. are committed to safety. The improvements achieved over the past five years attest to that commitment. We are justifiably proud of the achievement and dislike being misrepresented as in the April 1986 article. Reply by E.M. Spokes I regret that the lapse of time since the original work gives a picture of safety practice that is no longer true today. That Westmoreland has reduced its disabling injury rate by 65% to 7.4 in 1985 is most commendable, and I congratulate you for this accomplishment. It is typical of the progress sought by the National Academy of Science and National Research Council when they funded the original study and published "Toward Safer Underground Coal Mines" in 1982. If a significant number of companies do as well as Westmoreland, the report will have served its purpose. Since the paper was primarily a condensation of the original report, it would not have been appropriate to seek access to later statistics. The purpose in seeking its publication at the time of presentation was to reach those who might have missed the original report. The fact that publication was delayed has not voided that purpose and may have reminded some who were aware of the original that its recommendations still apply to improvement of underground coal mine safety.

Jan 6, 1986

By S. D. Thompson, L. Adler

J.R. Sturgul Thompson and Adler (1988) present a new simulator for use in designing conveyor belt systems for underground mines. Their model uses a large Fortran program to do a Monte Carlo simulation. Their approach is similar to that done by other researchers, such as Stanford (1965) and Newhart (1977). All Fortran based simulation models use an imaginary clock that is advanced a time increment. At each advance of time increment the program has to determine what is to take place in the system. Since many things can take place at different places in the system, this approach requires that a large amount of logic is needed at each step of the program. This, then, necessitates a great amount of jumping between different portions of the program. In fact, the Fortran program, CMBCS, takes up to 15 to 20 minutes to run on the mainframe and several hours for the PC. Such execution times are typical of Fortran based simulation studies. There have been other examples of Fortran based simulation studies in mining. Cross and Williamson (1969) presented a model of a working open-pit copper mine. Fosinato (1982) presented a model of the bucketwheel excavators for the large open-pit mines in Southern Victoria in Australia. These excavators discharge into a complex conveyor system, which can be thought of as being similar, but more complicated than the one modeled by CMBCS. All previous simulation studies using Fortran as the source code have several things in common: they all are very lengthy, often being of the order of 10,000 lines of code and take a great deal of CPU time to execute. The program of Fosinato takes more than 4.5 hours to run on a large mainframe. Also not mentioned by Thompson and Adler is the actual time it took to write the Fortran code. This, too, can be considerable, as Fosinato's program took several man years to write and de-bug. In order to change it, as the parameters change or as the mine increases, further large amount of time is needed. An alternate to such Fortran based programs is provided by using a special computer language known as General Purpose Simulation System (GPSS). This language is designed to solve a wide variety of discrete event simulation problems and appears to be particularly suited for mining situations as shown by Sturgul and Yi (1987). Although GPSS was introduced as far back as 1961, it has not been used in mining to any great extent. However, the original form was quite crude and inefficient compared to modern versions. Perhaps with the increasing popularity and availability of these recent versions, this will change. Two such versions are GPSS/H for the mainframe and GPSS/PC for the personal computer. GPSS/H allows for interactive usage, such as allowing input data to be entered via a menu. GPSS/PC has excellent graphical capabilities and one can actually view the simulation in progress. In addition, one can halt the simulation and change values of various parameters. If a particular portion of the simulation is in progress via a concept known as "microwindows." These new versions have greatly increased the potential for using the language for mining situations. Mining applications of GPSS have been given by Sturgul and Yi (1987), Sturgul and Harrison (1987), Sturgul (1987), and Sturgul and Singhal (1988). Schriber (1987) presents a summary of the recent advances in GPSS.

Jan 12, 1988

By J. R. Sturgul

Thompson and Adler (1988) present a new simulator for use in designing conveyor belt systems for underground mines. Their model uses a large Fortran program to do a Monte Carlo simulation. Their approach is similar to that done by other researchers, such as Stanford (1965) and Newhart (1977). All Fortran based simulation models use an imaginary clock that is advanced a time increment. At each advance of time increment the program has to determine what is to take place in the system. Since many things can take place at different places in the system, this approach requires that a large amount of logic is needed at each step of the program. This, then, necessitates a great amount of jumping between different portions of the program. In fact, the Fortran program, CMBCS, takes up to 15 to 20 minutes to run on the mainframe and several hours for the PC. Such execution times are typical of Fortran based simulation studies. There have been other examples of Fortran based simulation studies in mining. Cross and Williamson (1969) presented a model of a working open-pit copper mine. Fosinato (1982) presented a model of the bucketwheel excavators for the large open-pit mines in Southern Victoria in Australia. These excavators discharge into a complex conveyor system, which can be thought of as being similar, but more complicated than the one modeled by CMBCS. All previous simulation studies using Fortran as the source code have several things in common: they all are very lengthy, often being of the order of 10,000 lines of code and take a great deal of CPU time to execute. The program of Fosinato takes more than 4.5 hours to run on a large mainframe. Also not mentioned by Thompson and Adler is the actual time it took to write the Fortran code. This, too, can be considerable, as Fosinato's program took several man years to write and de-bug. In order to change it, as the parameters change or as the mine increases, further large amount of time is needed. An alternate to such Fortran based programs is provided by using a special computer language known as General Purpose Simulation System (GPSS). This language is designed to solve a wide variety of discrete event simulation problems and appears to be particularly suited for mining situations as shown by Sturgul and Yi (1 987). Although GPSS was introduced as far back as 1961, it has not been used in mining to any great extent. However, the original form was quite crude and inefficient compared to modem versions. Perhaps with the increasing popularity and availability of these recent versions, this will change. Two such versions are GPSS/H for the mainframe and GPSS/PC for the personal computer. GPSS/H allows for interactive usage, such as allowing input data to be entered via a menu. GPSS/PC has excellent graphical capabilities and one can actually view the simulation in progress. In addition, one can halt the simulation and change values of various parameters. If a particular portion of the simulation is in progress via a concept known as "microwindows." These new versions have greatly increased the potential for using the language for mining situations. Mining applications of GPSS have been given by Sturgul and Yi (1987), Sturgul and Harrison (1987), Sturgul (1987), and Sturgul and Singhal (1988). Schriber (1987) presents a summary of the recent advances in GPSS.

Jan 1, 1987

By A. G. Mayton, L. Adler

The paper under discussion provides an excellent and concise study of compartment ergonomics for thin seam equipment. However, in accomplishing this, some very important operational aspects were ignored. Since these are likely to be determinant, the authors' response is solicited. The novel shuttle car with its cross-car, end-mounted compartment is operationally very different from the current one. The latter can be considered a highly mobile extension of the continuous miner or loader, with a pass-through conveyor, dump boom, and extra storage. As such, the vehicle's kinematics are the simple "I," or shuttle pattern, bent for going around pillars, with an intermediate stop at the "change-out point" (Adler, 1986 ). The action of the cable reel adjusts well to this pattern. The proposed shuttle car's motion either superimposes a "Y," time is lost (5 seconds) for each cycle, space is needed, line of sight is compromised, and a cable anchor is probably required at the dump. A chute is almost prohibitive in construction time and cost. The lack of a dump boom further curtails flexibility in the proposal. The value of a standard hand and opposite standard hand configuration also needs consideration. Many front-end loaders have a rocker (overshot) capability that is designed to achieve an "I” pattern. And crawler loaders sometimes use a side dumping bucket variant for the same purpose. These examples indicate the pattern's importance. For underground, thin seam application, the ram car has become popular. This is an articulated truck, battery-powered, and with an ejector dump. Its operational patterns would be similar to the novel shuttle car, except without the loading flexibility provided by a conveyor. Since the cab location of the proposed shuttle car largely obviates some of the major advantages of the present shuttle car, the question arises whether this configuration could be adapted to the current ram car and scoop

Jan 1, 1991