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(The paper by L. H. De Wald-Tech. Pub. No. 429 was presented at the Boston meeting, September, 1931.) W. A. SCHEUCH, Chicago, Ill.-Since starting up our Hawthorne copper wire plant we have found that wire bars from certain suppliers perform quite differently from those of other suppliers. In attempting to evaluate these bars, we made cross-sections, and in making these cross-sections we found considerable variation in the crystal structure. Indications were that there was some preference in the type of crystal structure. In attempting to find the reason for that we discussed it with the various producers and-also reviewed the literature. Mr. DeWald was assigned to determine the various factors that enter into copper wire bar crystal structure, on the basis that the product was a horizontally cast wire bar of practically identical composition and of recognized good composition for the present quality product sold in the market. Mr. DeWald has asked me to say that he should have made reference to Mr. Dalzell's paper on a theory concerning gases in refined copper. D. K. CRAMPTON, Marion, Conn. (written discussion).-Mr. DeWald has set forth an interesting and thorough exposition of the factors controlling macrostructure of this material. It is particularly interesting to us as it somewhat parallels work we have done on macrostructure of round copper billets for piercing into tubes. Our findings as to the effect of the several variables on macrostructure check Mr. DeWald's. The general principles underlying the two are precisely the same. The fact that we worked with copper deoxidized with phosphorous instead of tough-pitch copper, and round billets cast on end instead of wire bars, does not influence the results. We have found that round billets cast so as to produce large radial grains have greater soundness and density than those with a fine macrostructure. Further, and more important, we have found that the billets with large radial grains show markedly different performance on piercing from those having a fine equiaxed structure. With a given temperature of billet and adjustment of piercing machine, the coarse-grained material requires appreciably lower power for piercing and goes through the operation inn appreciably less time. These two differences are of sufficient commercial importance to warrant exercise of great care in maintaining the coarse structure. It seems probable that much the same phenomenon should hold in the hot rolling of tough-pitch wire bars. We would expect that, other things being equal, the coarse-grained wire bars would roll more readily and require less power than fine-grained ones. Moreover, we believe the differences in initial structure of the wire bars should be largely eliminated in the hot rolling process and during the subsequent drawing and annealing, of wire would be entirely eradicated.

Jan 1, 1932

C. P. SANDBERG, LONDON, ENG : † I think we should all be grateful to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and to their chemist, Dr., Dudley, for spending so much time and money in order to solve an important question ; nor are we less indebted to the public spirit which leads them to impart the experience thus gained. In Europe nothing similar has hitherto been done, either by a company or by any private individual. In England the great railway companies employ their engineers in other ways, and do not keep a chemist or specialist to study rails; but even if they did they would probably not publish the results. The chief professional engineers are so occupied with their private practice of railroad construction generally, that they cannot be expected to devote their time and energies to so special a question. The German Railway Union has, in my opinion, missed the real object of its elaborate researches by falling into the error of specifying costly, impracticable tests for rails-tests at the same time which do not infallibly expose the impurities that may be in the rails under examination. There has, therefore, been nothing done on this side of the Atlantic in the way of exhaustive study to determine the best composition for steel rails. America should consequently have full credit for the enlightened example which she has set. I wish, however, to make a few remarks on Dr. Dudley's second paper, a paper which follows very much upon the same lines of argument as the first read three years ago, upon which I have previously touched in my paper on the same subject read at the meeting in August last. If Dr. Dudley had discovered a new metal he could hardly, I think, have taken more pains to prove that he was correct in his first formula for the best chemical composition of steel rails. But I have seen so much done in the way of proof by experiment that I am inclined to think that almost anything can be proved by experiments and by samples. If Dr. Dudley would only give up his formula, which would not suit any country-not even America- * For the convenience of members it has bees thought best to insert the continuation of this discussion at the Virginia meeting in tide place, rather than to delay its permanent publication until the issue of Volume X, Transactions, where it would properly belong. T. M. D., Sec'y, † Sent to the secretary in manuscript.

Jan 1, 1881

ASHBEL WELCH, LAMBERTVILLE, N. J.: Dr. Dudley has given the wear of steel rails under four different conditions. He arrives at the conclusion that the softer rails, or those that from their composition ought to be softer, wear better than the harder. But there is another condition which has an important bearing on the subject, and, should not be overlooked,-the weight on a wheel. With the lighter weights of the past, the softer rails may have worn best; with the heavier weights of the future, the harder may wear best. Weights will probably be increased up to the capacity of steel to bear; then doubtless the harder steel will wear best. A leaden rail with ten pounds on a wheel might carry millions of tons, but with one hundred pounds on a wheel, it would be destroyed by a few thousand tons. So in the days of iron rails, my experience was that the softer rails under light machinery stood better than some of the harder; but under heavy machinery the softer were much the most rapidly destroyed. His doubtless the same with steel. The pounding motion of the wheels loosens or spreads the particles of a thin film of steel; the pull lengthwise on the rail de- * Metallurgical Review, vol. i, page 1. † The remarks as here given, as in the previous discussion on steel rails, have all been written out or revised by the participants in the discussion, and represent, therefore, their mature views. It has been thought that this plan, when it can be carried out without doing any of the speakers injustice in debate, is much to be preferred to a strictly verbatim report. The remarks of Mr. Chanute were sent to the secretary after the. meeting, and although they did not form a part of the actual discussion, there can be no doubt of the desirability of including them in this report. The papers under discussion were “Rail Specifications and Rail Inspection in Europe,” by C. P. Sandberg ; " The Wearing Capacity of Steel Rails in Relation to the Chemical Composition and Physical Properties," by C. B. Dudley, and a Rail Patterns," by A. L. Holley. T. M. D., Secretary.

Jan 1, 1881

By S. H. Logan

Mr. B. Neilly: A week or so ago the Secretary was good enough to forward me an advance copy of this paper by Mr. Logan and it was suggested that I comment on it at this meeting. At that time I was not very certain that I would be here, so I committed my thoughts to paper. As a matter of courtesy to Mr. Logan, I sent him a copy of my proposed remarks and I would like to give you just what I sent to him. Appreciating fully Mr. Logan's ability and many sources of information, one naturally hesitates to question anything seriously set forth as his considered opinion. Neither does one of my political stripe like to accuse him of being too 'conservative.? However, in places his paper reminds me of another general manager of a Canadian bank. While I was still Secretary of the Ontario Mining Association, this general manager wrote asking for our forecast on the current year's mineral production, stating that he proposed to refer to such production figures in his annual address to his shareholders. The request was considered very complimentary to the Ontario Mining Association and, in my opinion, justified a great deal of serious study and effort. Finally, the estimate was prepared and forwarded, showing a modest increase over the previous year's total. Picture our surprise and chagrin on reading his address to find that he predicted not an increase but, if you please, a decline of over $10,000,000. Before I cooled off I wrote asking the basis of such a prediction and got a reply to the effect that men in his position had to be ultra conservative in picturing the future.

Jan 1, 1931

The validity of a steady state assumption made by Adams and Nicol (1986) in the modelling of the elution of gold from activated carbon was investigated. It is shown that the accuracy of the steady state approximation is dependent, not only on the magnitudes of the solution flow rate and reactor volume, but also on the lumped elution rate constant. Under the experimental conditions used by Adams and Nicol (1986) the steady state assumption was inaccurate. This could be circumvented in this instance by applying a rigorous general model which accounts for unsteady state behaviour in the solution and in the activated carbon to the experimental data.

Jan 1, 1997

By M. X. Jia

This paper discusses two mineralogy characteristics that may affect the flotation of sulfide ore. The first one, process mineralogy study on a Cu-Ni sulfide ore shows that valleriite and tochilinite are incline to form on chalcopyrite, pyrrhotite and serpentine surface, and the further guess is that the formation of valleriite and tochilinite may also causes the serpentine transform to talc, so the serpentine surface is a phase of talc or a transition phase from serpentine to talc and this enhances the flotability of the gangue minerals. The second discussion on the flotation behavior of the sulfide minerals from the point of view of the mineral semiconductor character.

Jan 1, 2014

By Pierre Mousset-Jones

I wish to submit this discussion item on an article published in the August issue of MINING ENGINEERING by Wala and Altman on the use of canonical diagrams for mine ventilation networks. The advent of computer graphics and plotting has enabled complex underground mine layouts to be displayed and plotted in a variety of three-dimensional formats that very closely represent the actual mine layout. This enables the ventilation engineer, who is familiar with the mine, to display the network pressures, quantities, resistances, and fan locations in a way that can be understood by everyone working at the mine. This is important if the ventilation engineer needs to discuss changes in ventilation with production personnel, or escapeway procedures with union personnel. While I can see some of the potential advantages in the canonical ventilation network diagram described by Dr. Wala, it appears to me that the fact that the diagram has no visual equivalence with the actual mine layout means that most mine personnel will find such a diagram almost incomprehensible. The authors have alluded to certain advantages with the canonical diagram. However, I find it difficult to see that these outweigh the fact that almost everything listed can be duplicated in isometric diagrams, and in a manner that is easily understandable to everyone in the mine from the miner to the mine manager. Perhaps the authors could show a clear example comparing an isometric with a canonical portrayal of a mine network showing the information that is immediately available from the canonical network that is not obvious in the isometric diagram. There is in this country a severe problem with the need for ventilation engineering and expertise to be used and accepted by mine management as a necessary part of mine planning. It seems to me that to introduce the requirement for further explanation so that management can understand a canonical network display will hinder more than help the recognition that ventilation engineering needs at so many mines in this country. However, I can see that the canonical approach does have its place in assisting the practicing mine ventilation engineer, wherever he or she exists in the organization chart for a typical mine. In this case, could the authors please indicate the availability of the computer program to compute and plot the canonical diagram for a mine ventilation network.

Jan 1, 1989

By K. Holmberg, D. Herriot

This paper by Mr Mclvor is yet another contribution to the eternal controversy surrounding the benefits, or otherwise, of high circulating loads in closed circuit grinding. Throughout the paper it is difficult to establish whether the author is referring to effects relating to the mill, classifier, or to the overall circuit. Table 1 is put forward as indicating the advantage of operating at high circulating loads. From the two (it would be interesting to see more) product sizing points provided in each case, the conclusions to be drawn are that cases one and two have very similar size analyses. The third case, however, indicates a much flatter curve, that is to say, higher fines production and a very wide spread of size ranges. If the objective of this circuit is to provide a closely sized product with minimum overground slimes to the downstream process, then it would appear to be the less "efficient" by far. No data is given for product pulp densities either. The term "efficiency" should never be used without a careful and clear definition. In this case, "efficiency" is used to express an apparent percentage reduction in operating work index (Bond) from the measured "standard" at 250% circulat¬ing load operation. The Bond calculation is itself based upon

Jan 1, 1989

By K. F. G. Hosking

I read Professor Gaudin's paper with great interest and pleasure because for some time I have held that the chemical aspect of comminution is a subject of considerable importance to the mineral dresser and deserves to be thoroughly investigated. It does seem appropriate, however, to emphasize the fact that "fresh" edges and corners produced by the grinding of solids display enhanced reactivity has been recognized and utilized in the development of certain mineral identification techniques. Some of these techniques are worth noting, not only because they might facilitate research in the aspect of mineral dressing under discussion, but also because they emphasize the fact that many mineral species commonly regarded as being very inert can display a surprising reactivity when in the freshly ground state. In 1951 Isakov published a number of tests for the components of certain mineral species which depend essentially on grinding in a mortar a mixture of the material under investigation with a solid reagent. Thus when stibnite, 4(Sb2S,), is ground with sodium or potassium hydroxide, the antimony is revealed by a momentary development of a yellow color which changes in air to orange-red. Other antimony minerals need a preliminary treatment before the test can be carried out. This consists of grinding with aluminium sulfate, ferric sulfate or potassium bisulfate, and breathing upon the resultant mixture.

Aug 1, 1956

By M. Albrecht

I have been following the discussions on coal degradation started by the article "Degradation process in coal slurry pipe-lines," by M.G. Ayat and B.C. Scott. I agree with Mr. Dasher's comments in January that the title of the article was perhaps misleading as the information appeared to pertain more to processing the coal than to transportation. Specifically, the authors' conclude that the cyclone had an important impact on the degradation. Dr. Ferri's comments on degradation in other physical processes was very correct, handling of coal in a turbulent manner has an impact on the size distribution of the coal. This is one reason that when I design a coal system (mine to rail car) I try to minimize the total number of transfer and processing steps consistent with achieving the desired product specifications. Another area, mentioned in passing in the article, the impact of natural causes and the mining step, is of particular interest to me. A mine in West Virginia had a variation of 50% in the -6.35 mm (-0.25 in.) raw coal depending upon the direction of mining. Since it was a single unit mine, this significantly impacted the final product. Two articles on mining's impact on size distribution are: • Stefanko, R., Chopra, 1K., and Ramani, R.V., 1974, "Mining influence on size consistency and washability characteristics of coal," SME Fall Meeting, September; and • Albrecht, M., and Olsen, D., 1980, "Mining methods impact on coal preparation plant design," 1st International Mine Planning and Development Symposium, September. Both articles presented information on variation of size distribution and cleaning plant performance on a coal depending on the mining method used. Both articles considered a single coal seam at one mining operation. Stefanko's article considered continuous and conventional mining of coal in Pennsylvania. Albrecht's article considered surface, underground continuous, and underground hydraulic mining of a coal in British Columbia. Both concluded that mining methods do impact coal characteristics. I agree with Mr. Ayat's comments in reply to Dr. Ferri's discussion, "... degradation is a multi-faceted phenomenon involving many natural and man-made factors." As efforts are being made to produce a higher quality (lower sulfur) coal, this topic becomes even more important

Jan 1, 1989

By G. Le Bel

The paper proposes three methods to determine optimum lifetime of a mining project1. The conclusion is that the three methods arrive at the same optimum production rate (by coincidence). It is also stated that: "The stochastic and option pricing models, in addition to providing a more realistic optimum mine life than the traditional NPV (net present value) calculation, showed that the example project has the potential for substantially higher return. By explicitly considering a project's potential risks, the stochastic or option pricing techniques can more accurately describe its probable investment performance." This discussion is intended to demonstrate that: • It is no coincidence that the three methods arrive at the same optimum production rate. • The stochastic and option pricing models do not provide a more realistic optimum mine life than the traditional NPV calculation. • The potential for a substantially higher return is misrepresented. First, a review of investment decision theory in mining is needed. Net present value is the preferred performance measure because of the flexibility offered when comparing various alternatives. However, it presents the following disadvantages: • The discount rate selection is not straightforward. • The NPV obtained represents a deterministic characterization of the variables included in the cash flow calculations, i.e. a single-point estimate.

Jan 1, 1993

By P. Malozemoff

I have no objection to using mathematics in the value appraisal of properties. The factor that is not emphasized in the paper is that very few important properties have a lifetime that reflects the initial ore reserves of the property divided by the rate of production adopted. In the majority of cases, major properties mine out several times the initial reserves. How much more will be mined out is not known, and only exceptionally gifted geologists can predict that additional reserves will be found. There is the further factor of metals price, which, over the long term, is not predictable. Another factor vitiating making calculations on initially established ore reserves is the speculative nature of exploration success. In my judgment, the life of a property, in addition to an established ore reserve, should include ample time for exploration to find additional reserves. The likelihood of additional reserves is based on the geological promise of the general area where the mine is established. This is especially important because of various risk factors associated with small orebodies, the economic life of which is about five to seven years.

Jan 1, 1993

S. F. EMMONS, Washington, D. C.: Papers of Collins, Vogt, DeLaunay, etc.-Mr. Collins tells us about facts in the veins of Cornwall that suggest secondary sulphide-enrichment is highly interesting; and I am free to confess that I have not studied the literature of that region as fully as I should have done. Nevertheless, even if it had been as familiar to me as it is to Mr. Collins, I should probably have hesitated to draw theoretical conclusions without having seen the mines myself; for the personal equation and the point of view of the observer play, perhaps, a larger part in the study of ore-deposits than in that of any other natural phenomena. One important purpose of my paper, and its publication at the time of the Washington meeting, was to call forth remarks from other geologists upon deposits with which they were personally familiar, or to lead them to re-examine such deposits with the idea of secondary enrichment in mind. Mr. Collins's remarks on Rio Tinto, which he has the advantage of personally knowing, are also interesting. With regard, however, to his suggestion-advanced as an apparent argument against our theory-that the re-precipitation of copper from cupric sulphate solution by pyrite can hardly take place there, since it would upset the commercial process, I would remark that, while he is undoubtedly right as to the fact, it does not militate against the reduction and re-precipitation of cupric sulphate in veins; since on the surface, as at Rio Tinto, there is free access of air, and consequently an excess of ferric sulphate, whereas in depth the ferric sulphate would have been mostly reduced to ferrous sulphate, and (there being no excess of acid to hold it in solution) the small amount of copper in the presence of an excess of iron sulphide would be precipitated either as sulphide or as native copper. To Professor Vogt's analogous remarks, that in his experience sulphuric acid is formed only in subordinate amount in the attack of sulphides by ferric sulphate, I would say that Dr.

Jan 1, 1902

By J. P. Zannaras

Referring to the article by R. J. Charles and P. L. de Bruyn, let us assume that W = weight of glass bar; P = weight of hammer; e = total deformation; E = unit of deformation; K = potential stress energy; E = modulus of elasticity; L = length of the bar; 7, = coefficient of inertia; h = height, ft; V = velocity, fps; and a = cross section area. The portion of kinetic energy which is effective in producing stress energy in a fixed bar struck horizontally is given by the formula [ ]

Nov 1, 1956

By S. Serata

Background Results of the above study in the August 1991 issue of Mining Engineering offer valuable lessons in the solution of cutter-roof problems. The original study plan was initiated by the discussion authors to solve the problems using the "stress control method" of mining (Serata 1976,1982; Serata, Carr and Martin, 1984; Serata and Gardner, 1986; Serata, Gardner and Preston, 1986; Serata, Gardner and Shrinivasan,1986; Serata and Kikuchi, 1986; Serata, Preston and Galagoda, 1987) However, the plan and the planner were changed to the arrangement reported in the paper. The change was considered reasonable at the time due to the mine engineers' uncertainties about the stress control method. Consequently, the basic principle of the study was shifted from the original stress control method to the method described in the paper, which will be called the "yield pillar method" for the purposes of this discussion. The paper convinces the reader that the yield pillar method fails to solve the cutter-roof problems. This doesn't mean that the stress control method also fails. Actually the contrary is true, as discussed below. Limitation of the yield pillar method The paper illustrates clearly how poorly the yield pillar method performs in solving the problem. The reason for this failure is the lack of the protective stress envelope needed to stabilize the cutter roof. Unfortunately, the protective envelope cannot be formed properly without utilizing the stress control method of mining. Changing the pillar size does not make much difference in the roof stability.

Jan 1, 1992

By P. Eadington

I feel sure that the apparent anomolies between his findings and ours arise as a result of the different experimental methods used. The modem oxygen electrode method he used is sensitive to nano moles of oxygen uptake whereas the method we used was only sensitive to micro moles at best. Furthermore, our experimental method did not permit measurements to be made in the first ten to fifteen minutes of reaction, the very time he is observing. Direct comparison of his data to ours is made difficult because of not knowing the specific area of the samples he used. However, we found that precipitation of PbS using sodium sulphide gave rise to samples of area approximately 30 m2 g - 1. Noticing the rapid decline in oxidation rate over ten minutes, as reported in Table 1, one can conclude that we could not measure the rate after ten minutes using our method. Taking the above area I estimate that at these rates only a small fraction of surface would be oxidised in a period of hours. I can only conclude that at some point a change in oxidation mechanisms occurs giving rise to a much faster rate such as we observed. Finally, I would like to comment on the apparent inertness of the homogeneously precipitated lead sulphide sample 11. This method of preparation we found to give specific areas of 20 to 30 times less than other methods and this would account for the very low oxidation rate.

Jan 1, 1982

By John S. Rinehart, Norman Ahlquist

The model which Birkimer has developed to explain the increase in fracture strength of brittle, rock-like materials with increasing rate of loading may have some applicability. It should be noted that since his analysis presupposes elastic behavior he could equally well express his result as an increase of stress to fracture with increasing strain rate, a fact which is well known. Certainly his experimental results do not contradict his strain rate to the one third power law. On the other hand, we do feel that the data are insufficient and inadequate to establish the relation- ship definitely. 'In metals, the whole fracture picture is greatly complicated by concomitant plastic flow and, in rocks, by the presence of macroscopic flaws and inhomogeneties. Both lead to uncertainties as to the state of stress during the fracture process. He quotes in support of his theory Rinehartfs results on rock in which the latter found that under impulsive loading by explosives, rocks appear to be many times stronger than under static loading. We suspect that the observed increase has little specific relevance to the theory which Birkimer puts forward. Rinehart's measurements were made by spalling rocks using a sawtooth shaped stress wave of known intensity and duration. The rise time of such a pulse is essentially zero, certainly less than 0.1 microseconds, so that it is not possible to apply Birkimerfs theory quantitatively. We favor attributing the increase in fracture strength to two factors. First, the action takes place very quickly in an exceedingly thin region so that statistically the probability is small of encountering one or more of the large flaws that contribute so significantly to the reduction of strength of most rocks under tension. It is also conceivable that the compressive wave that has just passed by the region of fracture has strengthened the rock by collapsing some of the larger flaws. Second, the state of stress obtaining at the time of fracture is not all that existing when the

Jan 1, 1971

By E. J. Garrison

A.C. Noble presents a clear and concise summary of the factors pertinent to a competent reserve evaluation of a mineral occurrence. However, I believe that he confuses the difference between a resource and a reserve. By definition, a reserve estimate includes all known economic, legal, mining, metallurgical and environmental factors impacting the recovery of the product(s) found in the deposit. A resource estimate, however, is an estimate of what is there - what is available for exploitation and should not include economic and other considerations. Only after defining the resource, its extent, location, physical and chemical properties, can an intelligent selection process begin of the extraction and processing technologies most appropriate to the circumstances encountered. The early and almost certainly inappropriate application of these often cookbook choices has probably lead many companies to walk away from good properties. (How many mines have been found in others rejects?) An example of the process is the early selection of metallurgical samples, after encouraging values are found in a few holes or surface samples, in an attempt to determine the economics of the prospect. Unfortunately, the sampler does not know how representative of the occurrence the sample is because he does not know what the deposit looks like. As a consequence, the property becomes saddled with a bad metallurgical sample that is often inappropriately used in evaluating the deposit which it does not represent.

Jan 1, 1994

By D. G. Krige

I read the paper “The jackknife approach” with interest. There appears to be a widespread misunderstanding of the kriging variance as a measure of the error variance of the kriged grade estimate of an ore block. Virtually all mineral deposits display skew frequency distributions and are subject to the well-known proportional effect. Thus, it is usual to find in an ore body, when subdivided a really into subpopulations, that the variances of the grades (or the total sills of the variograms) for the subpopulations will be correlated with the corresponding mean grades (usually linearly with the squares of the mean grades). Thus, the variogram will be stationary.

Jan 1, 1996

By Eldred D. Wilson

Apropos of metals low in the series illustrated by Dr. Butler's Table II, it is interesting to note that Cress and Feldman reported traces of platinum metals in several samples of alunite. They found, chemically and spectrographically, several traces of platinum, palladium, and rhodium in alunite from Sugar Loaf Peak, near Quartzite, Ariz.; silver, platinum, and rhodium in alunite from Rio Grande County, Colorado; and traces of rubidium and gallium in various samples of alunite. These authors stated that the platinum metals appear to be present as oxides and suggested deposition by hydrothermal solutions under near-surface conditions.

Dec 1, 1956