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By B. R. Queneau

[ ] B. R. QUENEAU-One of the difficulties in metallurgy has always been a lack of precision in measurement, and I think the authors are to be congratulated on developing a method which will give us an accurate and dependable quantitative estimate of the amount of retained austenite. O. ZMESKAL*-As Chairman Queneau said, this is indeed an ingenious and needed determination. We have seen figures presented of 1/2 pct retained austenite determined, and I would like to ask the authors the lower limits of this method. How far down do they feel they can go in improving the technique still more?

Jan 1, 1948

By J. L. Snoek

[ ] DISCUSSION J. L, SNOEK*-Stress-induced preferential diffusion in cubic body centered metals in the annealed state provides us with a powerful tool for determining the mobility of interstitially solved atoms as well as their location in the lattice and the exact nature of the distortion brought about in the lattice by their presence. Calculations given by D. Polder31 show that the distortion of the lattice, besides being proportional to the applied stress P, is also proportional to [VC, RT + xVCo] where T, V and Co are the temperature, molar volume of the solvent and molar concentration of the solute respectively and x is a constant describing the mutual interaction energy of the dissolved particles. This calculation obviously is no longer valid if x is negative and the abso¬lute value of xVCo surpasses that of RT. The lattice may then be expected to become tetragonal spontaneously. Such a spontaneous tetragonality seems to have been observed by W. Klemm and L, Grimm for the case of oxygen solved in vanadium.32 Measurements of the internal friction in cold worked iron containing carbon or nitrogen should provide us with information on the mobility as well as the preferential location of these particles in the iron lattice in the cold worked state. The work by T'ing-Sui Kê is a valuable contribution to this problem, The data obtained by T'ing Sui Kê and myself on cold worked samples of iron seem to indicate that carbon and nitrogen in these samples are found either in the normal (1/2 , 0, 0) interstices or in a new preferential position created by the cold working. The latter positions in my opinion can hardly by anything else but the edges of the dislocations. The observed larger distances of diffusion might be explained by assuming that the carbon atoms when freed from a certain dislocation by thermal agitation must diffuse over several atom distances before being caught in another dislocation. The theory however needs working out and no doubt will be much more complicated than the one valid for the annealed state. T'ING-SUI KÊ (author's reply)-It is highly encouraging to read the written discussion given by Dr, Snoek who initiated the theory of stress-induced preferential diffusion in cubic body centered metals in the annealed state, Since the presentation of this paper, the author has done more experimental work on this subject which seems to be able to settle several of the points raised by Dr. Snoek. It has been found that such stress-induced preferential diffusion occurs also in the solid solutions of carbon,33 oxygen,34 and nitrogen35 in tantalum which has a body centered cubic structure. Analysis of the shape of the observed internal friction. peaks indicates that the inter-

Jan 1, 1948

[ ] DISCUSSION F A LORIA*-The method of testing gun steel for resistance to surface cracking described in this paper was restricted to the examination of small, rod-shaped specimens The writer would like to point out the importance of other factors in producing defects in forged and bored gun tubes which would not be apparent in this investigation because of the nature of )he test Actual section size would accentuate the possibility of internal wall (bore) defects arising from unequal expansion between the internal and external wall surfaces on firing, resulting in internal tearing Checks and tears on the inside walls arise from internal tensions and nonuniformity on cooling, but the internal tearing can be reduced by using alloys of low expansion and of good thermal conductivity so as to reduce the difference between the outer and inner wall surfaces Also, the possibility of the location of inclusion segregates within a machined gun tube becomes more likely than in a small test specimen The effect of these nonmetallics on gun life and performance is evident when one realizes that the inclusions are soft yet brittle They reduce the amount of plastic deformation which can take place before cohesive failure occurs Once localized fracture has occurred at the position of a chain of these inclusions, a sharp notch (crack) is formed which produces stress conditions more favorable to cohesive failure than to plastic deformation These cracks aid erosion by providing channelways for the explosive gases, eventually leading to the tearing out or spalling of blocks of metal Oxidation of the surface may be partly responsible for the change in the surface of gun steel during firing observed by the author The appearance of burn on the surface is an indication that high temperatures were reached on firing, resulting in a slight oxidation of the surface Since the color of the oxidized film depends on both temperature and time, a higher temperature is required for a given color to form when it is caused by explosive heat, which acts for only an extremely short time at a given spot, than when it is caused by ordinary tempering The cross section of the gun steel specimen, Fig 16, illustrates that the repeated firing temperatures were high enough to cause

Jan 1, 1948

By Clarence F. Zeuch

Mr. Shaw's work showed the dodecyl mercaptan as a very good collector compared with other collectors on Cu-Mo ores, Mo ores, and for Au and Au-Ag ores plus Pt ores. However, as one who has had extensive experience on Cu-Mo ores, the work is not complete in making only a rougher concentrate with a collector; the work must be carried on in making a Cu-Mo separation. Did Mr. Shaw do any of this work? Before trying the dodecyl mercaptan as a Cu-Mo collector for the Cu-Mo ore it would be well to have any new work conducted knowing how the reagent acts on the Mo. Will it allow a good separation? The use of the collector at Palabora was also mentioned. From some earlier literature I thought that the reagent has been used as an oxide Cu collector after the sulfide mineral was floated out. I thought the pH at this point was about 1.5-3.0. I would like to have this point clarified.

Jan 1, 1982

By Samuel G. Bonasso

The article by Benavides and Schuster provides an in-depth study of this transportation alternatives for a four-mine complex in western Kentucky. The examination of aerial tramways was not undertaken as an alternative solution. We feel this is an oversight since industrial ropeways are competitive with both belt conveyance and overland truck hauling. In fact, there are aerial tramway system, operational today, which are 100 years old and operating with some original components. Maybe unfortunately, there are no fixed rules or guidelines whereby the most cost-effective means of transporting and handling material for a given situation may be selected. Each situation must be evaluated m the variables that influence the selection of the desired alternative can be clearly defined. However, there are in-place industrial ropeway system that have proven economically feasible over a range of 1.6-50 km (1-31 miles). The more difficult the terrain, the greater the cost efficiency.

Jan 1, 1984

By R. M. Schuster, F. M. Benavides

Samuel G. Bonasso The article by Benavides and Schuster provides an in-depth study of three transportation alternatives for a four-mine complex in western Kentucky. The examination of aerial tramways was not undertaken as an alternative solution. We feel this is an oversight since industrial ropeways are competitive with both belt conveyance and overland truck hauling. In fact, there are aerial tramway systems, operational today, which are 100 years old and operating with some original components. Maybe unfortunately, there are no fixed rules or guidelines whereby the most cost-effective means of transporting and handling material for a given situation may be selected. Each situation must be evaluated so the variables that influence the selection of the desired alternative can be clearly defined. However, there are in-place industrial ropeway systems that have proven economically feasible over a range of 1.6-50 km (1-31 miles). The more difficult the terrain, the greater the cost efficiency.

Jan 1, 1983

By K. Fuenkajorn, S. Serata

Discussion by S. Serata and K. Fuenkajorn Background Results of the above study in the August 1991 issue of Mining Engineering offer valuable lessons in the solution of cutter-roof problems. The original study plan was initiated by the discussion authors to solve the problems using the "stress control method" of mining (Serata 1976, 1982; Serata, Carr and Martin, 1984; Serata and Gardner, 1986; Serata, Gardner and Preston, 1986; Serata, Gardnerand Shrinivasan, 1986; Serata and Kikuchi, 1986; Serata, Preston and Galagoda, 1987) However, the plan and the planner were changed to the arrangement reported in the paper. The change was considered reasonable at the time due to the mine engineers' uncertainties about the stress control method. Consequently, the basic principle of the study was shifted from the original stress control method to the method described in the paper, which will be called the "yield pillar method" for the purposes of this discussion. The paper convinces the reader that the yield pillar method fails to solve the cutter-roof problems. This doesn't mean that the stress control method also fails. Actually the contrary is true, as discussed below. Limitation of the yield pillar method The paper illustrates clearly how poorly the yield pillar method performs in solving the problem. The reason for this failure is the lack of the protective stress envelope needed to stabilize the cutter roof. Unfortunately, the protective envelope cannot be formed properly without utilizing the stress control method of mining. Changing the pillar size does not make much difference in the roof stability. Stress measurement The key issue is how to form the global stress envelope to make the gate entries safe for production. Therefore, measuring the stress condition of the ground around the mine opening is critically important to solving the cutter-roof problem, regardless of the method applied. With regard to the stress measurement, there is a serious question as to the reported stress state of [6 i = -51.7 MPa (-7499 psi), G2 = -44.5 MPa (-6458 psi) and 63 = -30.8 MPa (-4465 psi)]. It is mechanically impossible to have such a stress state at any location in the mine ground since the known initial vertical stress [o,,] is less than or equal to 800 psi. There may be a large stress state in the [61] direction, but that is possible only at the expense of the [63] value. Having the above stress tensors in the mine is simply impossible. The questionable, reported stress values could be attributed to the application of the overcoring method, which tends to produce erroneously large stress values in the extremely nonelastic mine ground. Stress control method The paper should be considered as a major contribution demonstrating the limitation of the yield pillar method. At the same time, the paper does not disprove the stress control method. However, in comparing the paper with stress control studies conducted in other similar failing grounds, the stress control method appears to be able to solve the problem more effectively. Therefore it is advisable that the mine not give up its efforts to solve the problem. [•] References Serata, S., 1976, "Stress control technique - An alternative to roof bolting?," Mining Engineering, May. Serata, S., 1982, "Stress control methods: Quantitative approach to stabilizing mine openings in weak ground," Proceedings, 1st International Conference on Stability in Underground Mining, Vancouver, BC, Aug. 16-18. Serata, S., Carr, F., and Martin, E., 1984, "Stress control method applied to stabilization of underground coal mine openings," Proceedings, 25th US Symposium on Rock Mechanics, Northwestern University, June, pp. 583-590. Serata, S., and Gardner, B.H., 1986, "Benefits of the stress control method," invited paper, American Mining Congress Coal Convention, Pittsburgh, PA, May 7. Serata, S., Gardner, B.H., and Shrinivasan, K., 1986, "Integrated instrumentation method of stress state, material property and deformation measurement for stress control method of mining," invited paper, 5th Conference on Ground Control in Mining, West Virginia University, Morgantown, WV, June 11-13. Serata, S., and Kikuchi, S., 1986, "A diametral deformation method for in situ stress and rock property measurement," International Journal of Mining and Geological Engineering, Vol. 4, pp. 15-38. Serata, S., Preston, M., and Galagoda, H.M., 1987, "Integration of finite element analysis and field instrumentation for application of the stress control method in underground coal mining," Proceedings, 28th US Symposium on Rock Mechanics, Tucson, AZ, pp. 265-272.

Jan 1, 1993

By A. G. Sciulli, G. P. Ballock, K. K. Wu

Waste disposal underground is the most effective method when viewed from an environmental aspect. As costs of other methods of disposal continue to escalate, the cost effectiveness of underground disposal during the mining cycle becomes increasingly attractive. The use of concrete for sealing abandoned mines has proved to be suspect when associated with a relatively incompetent adjacent strata due to its shrinkage characteristics. Complete failure of the plug has been known to occur in some instances. A more effective, cost competitive seal can be obtained using pneumatically stowed material and incorporating a polyurethane grout, which has greater adhesion characteristics than concrete. Injection of the surrounding strata and of the stowed material helps to ensure an impervious barrier and prevent the plug from moving when subject to high pressure heads. When properly placed, impervious seals cause the old workings to flood, raise the mine pool level, and thus eventually eliminate the potential for oxidation, which is the primary cause of acidity in the water.

Jan 11, 1986

By V. Miller

C. Hertzler The difference of means of milling characteristics by rock and ore type is tested in a statistical manner in the paper. The null hypothesis being tested is that the sample means of two different populations are equal. It is assumed that the null hypothesis is true when performing the test. Because of this, acceptance of this hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are equal (or there is no significant difference between the sample means), not that the samples come from the same population, as the author asserts. Rejection of the null hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are not equal. A P value for this test is reported in Table 2 and is incorrectly identified as the probability that the two samples came from different populations. Actually, what was recorded was 100(1 - p) where p is the usual p-value. The usual p-value measures, on a scale of zero to one, the extent to which the data agree with the null hypothesis. It is the probability of observing a value of the test statistic (Z score) that is at least as contradictory to the null hypothesis as the one computed from the sample data (McClave and Dietrich II, 1982). The author makes no mention of the fact that were these tests to be conducted together, the chances of determining that the null hypothesis is not true when it is really true are increased considerably (Snedecor and Cochran, 1980). This is a multiple comparisons problem and should be dealt with accordingly. The usual methods involve adjusting the level of the individual tests. Table 2 reports an incorrect 100(1 - p) value in the comparison of concentrate grades for other rock types with .30 to .69 % Cu vs other rock types with .70 + % Cu; 86 % should be 98.6 %. Although the article can be criticized for poor data presentation and discussion of that data, the point the author makes regarding the use of these statistics in the ore reserve estimation process is well taken. It does not appear that inaccuracies in the statistical interpretations have hindered that usefulness. References McClave, J.T., and Dietrich, II, F.H., 1982, "Statistics," Dellen Publishing Co., San Francisco and Santa Clara, CA, 766 p. Snedecor, G.W., and Cochran, W.G., 1980, "Statistical Methods," The Iowa State University Press, Ames, IA, 561 p. Reply by V. Miller After reading Ms. Hertzler's comments, it appears that the differences noted were basically semantics. If the paper is ever presented at a math symposium, some changes will be needed. When deciding the best way to present the data to mining engineers and geologists, I decided that presenting the probability that the two sample groupings came from different populations (reverse to the Null hypothesis) was easier and would require less verbage to explain. Hence, the 100(1 - p) difference which was noted. Ideally, I would have preferred to give the recovery and concentrate grades, then comment which ones had significant differences. Unfortunately, Kennecott Corp. did not grant permission to publish the ore body's actual recoveries and concentrate grades. The conclusion is that there was, as expected, a relationship between the ore's geologic properties and the metallurgical properties, and by determining this relationship, the overall mineral model was greatly improved.

Jan 8, 1984

By C. Hertzler

The difference of means of milling characteristics by rock and ore type is tested in a statistical manner in the paper. The null hypothesis being tested is that the sample means of two different populations are equal. It is assumed that the null hypothesis is true when performing the test. Because of this, acceptance of this hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are equal (or there is no significant difference between the sample means), not that the samples come from the same population, as the author asserts. Rejection of the null hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the sample means of the two different populations are not equal. A P value for this test is reported in Table 2 and is incorrectly identified as the probability that the two samples came from different populations. Actually, what was recorded was 100(1 - p) where p is the usual p-value. The usual p-value measures, on a scale of zero to one, the extent to which the data agree with the null hypothesis. It is the probability of observi" a value of the test statistic (Z score) that is at least as contradictory to the null hypothesis as the one computed from the sample data (McClave and Dietrich 11, 1982). The author makes no mention of the fact that were these tests to be conducted together, the chances of determining that the null hypothesis is not true when it is really true are increased considerably (Snedecor and Cochran, 1980). This is a multiple comparisons problem and should be dealt with accordingly. The usual methods involve adjusting the level of the individual tests. Table 2 reports an incorrect 100(1 - p) value in the comparison of concentrate grades for other rock types with .30 to .69% Cu vs other rock types with .70 + % Cu; 86% should be 98.6%. Although the article can be criticized for poor data presentation and discussion of that data, the point the author makes regarding the use of these statistics in the ore reserve estimation process is well taken. It does not appear that inaccuracies in the statistical interpretations have hindered that usefulness.

Jan 1, 1985

By P. R. Sheorey

I read this interesting paper on pillar strength in some detail because this is also my area of interest. It has long been the desire of mining rock mechanicians to predict pillar strength from laboratory compression tests. Considerable literature is available on compression strength of rocks and coal but many of these experiments were conducted not for pillar design but for rock behavior. I have a few comments on the author's approach to pillar design, especially equation (33). Two important factors, which the author seems to have excluded, can be added to the right side of equation (2): time-dependence of strength and the influence of mine environment on strength (moisture and weathering.) The author has taken considerable pains to analyze a large amount of testing data in [Table 1], yielding the various exponents ci of equation (2) (or the subsequent equations derived from it.) He has, however, not shown by means of a worked out example how these values of [Table 1] could be applied to a practical pillar design situation. It would have been interesting to compare predicted pillar size using equation (33) with an actual case. Alternatively, equation (33) could have been used to explain the failure of a pillar, if such a case history were available. Consider we have a large number of case histories of stable and collapsed pillars in a seam and we conduct a large number of tests in a laboratory press. The exponents [ci] can then be determined for actual pillars as well as for test specimens. Thus, equation (2) will read [ ] Since laboratory testing conditions (e.g., between steel platens) are different from the conditions on pillars, the exponents [ci] in

Jan 1, 1983

A. G. Cockbain—The paper by Burlingame, Bitsianes and Joseph is of great interest in extending the work done on high grade sinters, particularly that of Hessle, and the development and application to them of the technique of McBriar, Johnson, Andrews and Davies on ironstone sinters. In this laboratory the work of McBriar et al. has also been continued and extended to cover high grade sinters, and a sectioning technique similar to that used by McBriar et al. was attempted on sinter cakes made in the laboratory sinter unit, using magnetite concentrates (containing 64 pct Fe). In these experiments no attempt was made to flush out the products of combustion with nitrogen before cooling. It was considered that free air penetration would occur on only a limited scale with the size of sinter cake made (14 in. sq x 12 in. deep). Chemical analyses of the zones showed generally similar features of those described by Burlingame et al. and especially the FeO rich region at and just behind the flame front, i.e. zones of ignition and combustion. This seems to indicate that the nitrogen atmosphere does not materially affect the states of oxidation in the sinter cake or at least that special care is not required unless the sinter cake is small. Burlingame et al. consider that FeO present has some significant part to play in the mechanism of sintering. This view does not find favor with the author. The reduction of iron oxides in the presence of red hot coke is a well known phenomenon, whether conducted in an atmosphere of nitrogen or in a crucible in air, and in view of the presence of some carbon in the hot sinter, especially just at the ignition zone, cessation of the progress of the flame front will in no way affect the reduction of iron oxides near hot coke. Even in a nitrogen atmosphere some CO and CO, will be generated by reduction and by continual oxidation and reduction of CO as the transfer agent, the oxidation state of the iron oxides can be lowered quite rupidly so long as free carbon exists with enough heat. Knowing the composition of the gas at the flame front (obtainable by probes), it would be possible to calculate the static oxidation state of Fe2O3/Fe3O2 in equilibrium with it and hence obtain a check on the chemical analyses to see if in fact direct reduction of the Fe2O3/Fe2O1 to FeO has taken place. Have the authors attempted this? It appears to this writer that what is required is some means of reducing rapidly the heat content of the ignition zone and immediately behind, and at the same time insuring no oxidation by the air. In ironstone sinters the difficulty of oxidation state of the iron did not arise on account of the very large slag bulk. However, in high grade sinters knowledge of this, and also the mechanism whereby high oxidation states can be obtained in the final sinter, is of great interest. R. D. Burlingame (author's reply)—The question has been raised as to whether the high FeO content found in high-fuel sinters is due to actual reduction at the advancing flame front or due to unavoidable direct reduction during the quenching period. For such direct reduction to have taken place in the freshly-formed sinter, a considerable amount of solid carbon would have had to escape combustion and be available throughout the hot sinter zone during the quenching period. A simple stoichiometric calculation with the limited data available indicates that a zone of freshly-formed sinter over 2 in. wide must have averaged roughly 2 pct C to accomplish the amount of reduction found. Furthermore, the presence of this amount of carbon would indicate that the fuel in the charge had not burned over a narrow front but over a zone at least 2 in. thick. In contrast to such a condition, the data of the present investigation indicate that the combustion of fuel is confined mainly to a narrow front in which high temperatures and reducing conditions favor. the formation of excess ferrous iron.

Jan 1, 1959

H. H. Kellogg (Columbia University)—The accurate measurements of the equilibrium gas ratios for the reaction: Pb(1) + H2S = PbS(c) + H2 [I] reported in this paper are a distinct contribution to the literature, and the authors are to be congratulated. I wish to comment, however, on the correlation of the data which is presented. The authors show a straight line correlation of log H2S/H2 vs 1/T, Fig. 1, and are satisfied with this for calculation of ?Fo even when extrapolated to low temperature (427 °C). Heat capacity data for the constituents of this reaction are available (at least to 900°K), however, and ACP for reaction [I] is finite and positive in the temperature range studied. Simplification of the heat capacity equations yields: ?CP= 2.71 + 1.65 x 10-3T (298°-900°K) This positive value of ?CP should result in a small but noticeable curvature of a plot of log K vs 1/T. That the experimental data fail to show such a curvature may be traced to another oversimplification of the author's treatment of their data. They assume that the activity of liquid lead is unity for all temperatures, so that

Jan 1, 1961

Few people in the industry today are competent to comment on the O.G. system for vessel covers, but with papers as well prepared as Mr. Bradley's we will soon be well informed. I would like to direct these comments to Mr. Klaes of Ford Motor Company. Mr. Klaes' description of their steaming hood agrees with our experience at Weirton. We have been able to stay within design limits and, as a result, have had few problems with our auxiliary equipment. Our main problem, as with Ford, has been thinning of our vessel cover tubes. At Weirton, controlled circulation, high pressure boilers are in use as heat recovery units above the BOP vessels. The boilers are provided with "off cycle' oil firing equipment. A Venturi type wet gas scrubber follows the boiler to complete the vessel draft system.

Jan 1, 1972

I have attended these meetings, every year, since 1926 and have served on both the Pittsburgh and the National Executive Committees, so that I am fully aware - of the ruling of this organization regarding, "No Papers by Vendors". Since I am now classified as a VENDOR, I wish to express my sincere appreciation for the invitation to formally discuss these very interesting papers --all of which herald the coming of an entirely new era in the manufacture of quality steels. I also appreciate the references by Mr. Mosser and Dr. Swinkels to my first paper on the oxygen probe which was presented at the meeting of this group, here in Chicago, in 1966 and was subsequently published in the NOH Proceedings of that year. (1)

Jan 1, 1972

By M. R. Yalamanchili, J. D. Miller

Discussion by M.R. Yalamanchili and J.D. Miller The authors, M. S. Celik et al., should be recognized for their efforts to describe the flotation behavior of boron minerals. In the case of borax and other soluble salt minerals, analysis of the flotation chemistry has been difficult because of the high ionic strengths associated with these soluble salt systems. However, considerable progress has been made in this area, and recently a surface charge/collector colloid adsorption model was proposed by Miller and his coworkers to explain the collector adsorption phenomena observed in soluble salt flotation systems (Milleret al, 1992; Yalamanchili et al., 1993; Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994; Yalamanchili and Miller, 1994a: Yalamanchili and Miller, 1994b). In this work, the sign of the surface charge of alkali halides in their saturated brines was established on the basis of nonequilibrium electrophoretic mobility measurements by laser-Doppler electrophoresis (Miller et al., 1992). Generally, these results are what would be expected from the simplified lattice-ionhydration theory. This electrokinetic information coupled with the stability and prevalence of collector colloids in such soluble salt flotation systems indicates that the selective flotation of alkali halides is due to the adsorption of oppositely charged collector colloids by heterocoagulation. Experimental flotation/bubble attachment results for 21 different alkali halides (Yalamanchili et al., 1993; Yalamanchili and Miller, I994b) confirmed that the flotation response of soluble salt minerals with weak electrolyte collectors can best be explained by the adsorption of oppositely charged collector colloids rather than by the adsorption collector ions and/or neutral molecular dipoles as originally suggested by many researchers (Fuerstenau and Fuerstenau, 1957; Schubert, 1967; Roman et al., 1968). In addition, the flotation of certain alkali oxyanions (Pizarro et al., 1993) and double salts such as schoenite and kainite can be explained by the same collector colloid adsorption mechanism (Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994). The borax flotation results reported by Celik et al. need to be examined in terms of the above mentioned surface charge/ collector colloid adsorption model. Unfortunately, the authors seem to be unaware of this recent work that nicely describes soluble salt flotation with weak electrolyte type collectors such as amines and carboxylates. In view of our past work, the flotation characteristics of borax were of particular interest, and, in this regard, the results of dodecyl amine flotation of borax reported by Celik et al. have been examined in further detail in the light of experimental results from our laboratory. In our research, a vacuum flotation technique was used to study the flotation response of borax (Na2B407.10H20), which has a solubility of 39 g/L at 25 °C) with dodecyl amine hydrochloride as collector. These chemicals were purchased from Eastman Kodak and used as received. Saturated solutions of borax at desired pH values were prepared by continuously stirring the salt solutions over a period of about 10 hrs. It should be mentioned that the conditioning time to achieve equilibrium is an important variable and can significantly change the flotation response of some soluble salts (Yalamanchili et al., 1993). Collector was added to the saturated borax solutions containing about one gram of 100x 150 mesh borax particles, and conditioning was done for about 20 minutes prior to flotation. The borax flotation recoveries from saturated brine are presented in Fig. 1 as a function of collector addition at the natural pH of 9.3, as reported both by Celik et al. and as measured in our laboratory. In addition, the region of precipitation for the dodecyl amine hydroborate is included in Fig. 1. It can be seen in Fig. 1 that the flotation response curves are separated by about one order of magnitude in R12NH3CI collector addition. The flotation results of Celik et al. show that the maximum borax recoveries can be obtained below the solubility limit of the dodecyl amine hydroborate collector. However, in our experiments borax flotation seems to occur only after the precipitation of the dodecyl amine hydroborate collector as might be expected from the collector colloid adsorption model (Yalamanchili et al., 1993) if borax were negatively charged. Further analysis by nonequilibrium and equilibrium electrophoretic mobility measurements for borax indicates that borax is negatively charged at the natural pH of 9.3, as discussed below. The reliability of the nonequilibrium electrophoretic measurements has been demonstrated previously for alkali halides and alkali oxyanions (Miller et al., 1992; Miller and Yalamanchili, 1994). The equilibrium and nonequlibrium electrophoretic measurements for borax were found to be consistent and are presented in Table 1. These results provide clear evidence that borax carries a negative surface charge in its saturated brine (pH 9.3), and the sign of the surface charge of borax reverses and becomes positive if the pH is reduced to 8.6. The equilibrium between borax and its saturated brine can be described by the following reaction: [2Na2B407.1OH2O-4Na++B407=+HB4O7 +OH+19H20] It appears that the oxyanions of the borax lattice provide

Jan 1, 1995

By J. J. Predali, J. M. Cases

J. J. Predali and J. M. Cases (Attachè de Recherche and Charge de Recherche, respectively, Centre de Recherches sur la Valorisation des Minerais, Institut Polytechnique de Nancy, Nancy, France)-The role of CO, in carbonate flotation is one of the parameters of a complex phenomenon: the adsorption of salts of fatty acids onto minerals. The authors therefore must be congratulated for their work. Their experimental results suggest some questions: 1) Recovery with C02, benzoic acid, or HCl, look very similar [(Fig. 1)] to that with the use of air; however, the recovery decreases very slightly (<10%). But in these two kinds of experiments, two parameters are different: the pH which is near 5.8 (with C02) becomes 9.1(without C02) and the concentration of Ca* I x 10-3 mole per 1 (without C02) becomes 1.9 X 10&apos; mole per 1 (without COO. 2) Adsorption experiments (Fig. 2) permit computing the surface coverage 9 which is 7.4% (without C02) and 8% (without CO_.) for an initial concentration of 12 X 10-6 mole per 1 in sodium oleate. It seems doubtful to us that this small variation can produce large increases of the recovery in flotation. 3) It is difficult to correlate adsoption and flotation experiments because they do not seem to have been done with the same size of particles. The concentration needed to obtain 95% recovery (Fig. 1) is about 3.0 X 10_" mole per l, that is, 1.13 X 10-6 mole for about

Jan 1, 1973

By Andre Hubaux

In the writer&apos;s opinion, more stress should be put on field and microscope observations, as J. L. Gillson does. His discovery of relics of big labradorite feldspars from the Marcy anorthosite in all the other rocks is proof enough that previous field observations have been inadequate. The writer&apos;s field experience with anorthositic massifs is limited to the Egersund-Sogndal district in southern Norway; however, this is a very large and well exposed area. It seems to have so many points in common with the Adirondack region that a detailed comparison should be beneficial. This comparison was not possible 20 years ago, owing to the scarcity of geological data, at least for Norway. Both regions are now far better known-the Norway district because of the work of Professors Bugge and Barth33-35 and especially because of the extensive field and microscopic research of P. Michot,36-46 who introduced me in the field to the problems of that region.

Jan 3, 1958

By E. J. Garrison

Discussion by E.J. Garrison A.C. Noble presents a clear and concise summary of the factors pertinent to a competent reserve evaluation of a mineral occurrence. However, I believe that he confuses the difference between a resource and a reserve. By definition, a reserve estimate includes all known economic, legal, mining, metallurgical and environmental factors impacting the recovery of the product(s) found in the deposit. A resource estimate, however, is an estimate of what is there - what is available for exploitation and should not include economic and other considerations. Only after defining the resource, its extent, location, physical and chemical properties, can an intelligent selection process begin of the extraction and processing technologies most appropriate to the circumstances encountered. The early and almost certainly inappropriate application of these often cookbook choices has probably lead many companies to walk away from good properties. (How many mines have been found in others rejects?) An example of the process is the early selection of metallurgical samples, after encouraging values are found in a few holes or surface samples, in an attempt to determine the economics of the prospect. Unfortunately, the sampler does not know how representative of the occurrence the sample is because he does not know what the deposit looks like. As a consequence, the property becomes saddled with a bad metallurgical sample that is often inappropriately used in evaluating the deposit which it does not represent. Reply by A.C. Noble E.J. Garrison asserts that I confuse the difference between a resource and an ore reserve. In fact, this paper was motivated by the observation that resources and reserves are almost universally confused throughout the industry. While Garrison is concerned that too-early consideration of engineering, metallurgical and economic factors will result in dropping properties too soon, some issues that must be considered include: •The purpose of exploration is to discover ore reserves, not to discover resources. •Ore reserves are always smaller than resources. • Decisions on exploration expenditures must be made based on the expectation of the quantity of ore reserves that will ultimately be defined. Noble&apos;s Fig. 2 can be used to give guidance as to when it is appropriate to begin reserve calculations. When exploration enters the "flat" portion of the curve, representative samples can be selected for metallurgical studies and appropriate mining methods chosen. It is at this stage that we know enough about the deposit to make intelligent choices of representative samples and recognize constraints on mining caused by the deposits shape, environment and physical properties. Once the appropriate technologies have been chosen, then their cost can be estimated with reasonable accuracy. Early entry of economic and process factors gives the false appearance of reserve status to the resource estimation. It would be more informative and less subject to abuse and misunderstanding if resource calculations were made at a number of cutoff grades. The cutoff grades should be chosen to cover the range of grades found in practice in existing operations of similar type. This would emphasize the open nature of resource estimates and encourage creative evaluation of mining and process technologies. It does not preclude the use of economic, environmental and recovery technology factors in deciding the advisability of continuing exploration expenditures, but would highlight their speculative nature. It is thus hoped that decisions on the future of the deposit would not be made on the presumed suitability of a given technology but on the actually known reality. I agree that resource estimates should be reported as a range of cutoff grades. Since reporting at a cutoff implies application of underlying economics (even by analogy to similar properties), however, it should be clearly stated that resources do not consider economic, mining or cost factors, and that ore reserves will be substantially less. The dilemma of the explorationist is that until the continuity and limits of ore-grade mineralization have been established, it is difficult to make quantitative estimates of either resources or ore reserves. Further industry discussion is needed regarding standards for disclosing early exploration information in such a way as to fairly represent the potential of an exploration property.

Jan 1, 1995

By L. H. Hart

Because of a widely recognized association between breccia pipes of one form or another and many important copper deposits, conditions under which breccia pipes develop have been of great scientific interest for many years. Since these phenomena first attracted attention, many theories have been advanced to explain their origin. This is not unexpected, since it is likely that they have been formed by and under a wide range of conditions. Moreover, the entire subject is confused by the fact that the term breccia pipe is applied to a wide variety of occurrences. To discuss any part of the subject intelligently, therefore, it is necessary to start with definitions of the terms used. In their discussion of the Toquepala deposit, Richard and Courtright have carefully defined the terms they have used in their presentation of a very logical geo- logical history of Toquepala breccias. This is a real contribution, as there is no reference in the literature known to the writer where the history of a series of breccia pipe epochs, confined essentially within one channelway, may be read with the degree of certainty that appears to be possible at Toquepala.

Jan 6, 1958