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By M. Lonoff

G. Campbell The paper by M. Lonoff looks at the importance of byproduct prices on copper production. The paper develops several interesting points on this topic, but there are some points in the theoretical discussion that could use further development. A couple of these theoretical topics will be considered here using the paper's framework of assumptions without concern about how realistic the assumptions are for the copper industry. Lonoff's theoretical model is based on a static, homogenous world where all copper/byproduct deposits are identical, and these deposits are the main source of these metals. Due to the importance of the byproducts to the production decision, the term coproducts will be substituted for the term byproducts to reflect more accurately this condition. The conclusion is drawn that a rise in coproduct prices necessitates a decrease in copper prices because copper production is increased as a consequence of increased coproduct production. The observation that real world behavior does not always follow this pattern is dismissed as "speculation." However, it can be easily shown that within this simple framework market forces might create the observed behavior. The key question to be answered is what causes coproduct prices to rise. Three possible cases will be used as illustrations. The first case is the one implicity assumed by Lonoff. Here, the demand for coproducts increases at all prices (an outward parallel shift of the demand curve) with the demand for copper remaining constant. As reported in the paper, the results are higher coproduct prices, an increase in coproduct production, and lower copper prices due to the resulting increase in copper production. The second case is when the supply of coproducts are constrained-leading to higher market prices. Copper production, as required by the simple model, is also reduced which Reply by M. Lonoff Campbell's comments give me an opportunity to clarify a few points in "Copper and Its Byproducts." That paper examined the affect of byproducts on the copper market and considered the relative riskiness of multi-metal deposits from an investment standpoint. That brief note made no attempt to be exhaustive. Nevertheless, Campbell's comments miss the point of the paper and necessitate a response. My "theoretical model" was static and I freely conceded after introducing the assumption of identical deposits that "none of the assumptions hold." These simplifying assumptions allowed me to bound the possible effects of higher byproduct prices on the copper price by assuming identical deposits and computing average price effects. I took great pains to subsequently explain that since deposits are not identical the identity of the marginal deposit might change due to byproduct price changes. In this case, average price affects will overstate the affect of byproducts on copper prices. According to Campbell, I dismiss as speculation any "real world behavior that does not always follow this pattern" (of metals prices moving in opposite directions). In the byproducts paper I noted that gold, copper, and silver price movements often parallel each other on an intra-day or day-to-day basis. Such movements are largely due to market anticipation of or reaction to changes in interest rates that affect carrying costs of metals stocks. Other movements may be due to anticipated changes in available supply or physical requirements. I loosely grouped these effects as speculative. To distinguish this statement from the main thrust of the paper, I contined "In the long run if gold and silver prices remain high the equilibrium copper price will be lower." The paper set out long run equilibrium conditions rather than attempting to explain price movements on a daily basis or on a year-to-year basis.

Jan 11, 1983

By N. D. Policow, J. S. Orphanos

D.A. Dahlstrom In the paper, a comparison was made between flowsheets using the screen bowl centrifuge and disc filters, respectively, as the primary dewatering device. The authors very effectively show that by raising feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced through reduced viscosity of the water. When a final coal moisture of 10% is required, the net effect of heating the feed is a reduction in thermal requirements because of the lower evaporated load on the dryer. The flowsheet comparison on this, however, was not completely correct. Disc filters do not generally utilize enhanced mechanical dewatering through increased temperature. Horizontal belt filters, through the optimal use of steam heating of the filter cake, have shown significant cost reductions over disc filters where steam is not used. In addition, the authors forgot to mention that there is a certain fraction of the feed that is so fine that it cannot be recovered by the centrifuge economically. That is the function of the filtration device shown in Fig. 4. In subbituminous pipeline coals, this fraction represents more than 10% of the feed. Even after flocculation and belt pressing, the moisture content in the fine fraction is 30%-40. Recent tests on a subbituminous pipeline coal slurry, compared an Eimco-Extractor horizontal belt filter with the screen bowl centrifuge flowsheet shown in Fig. 4. Mechanical dewatering was enhanced through the use of a steam dry zone after the initial dewatering zone. Vacuum pump horsepower was reduced by more than 50% through the use of condensors, and heat recovery was utilized to minimize thermal costs. Thermal drying to 10% moisture by weight was required in both flowsheets. The 0.5 wt% fines in the filtrate were flocculated and recycled to the filter, thus eliminating the belt press and solids mixers. When the three major operating costs (which normally account for 50%-75% of the coal operating costs) of steam, electricity, and flocculants at current prices were calculated, the flowsheets utilizing the Eimco-Extractor had cost savings vs the centrifuge flowsheet of 89¢/t (81o; per st) of surface dry coal. This advantage increases with increasing thermal and electricity prices. I congratulate the authors for the strides made with the screen bowl centrifuge. However, filtration flowsheets continue to be improved and their simplicity and low thermal and electrical requirements should not be so quickly dismissed. ? Reply by N.D. Policow From a technical standpoint, a number of extensive test programs have demonstrated that by raising the feed temperature, mechanical dewatering is enhanced whether it be centrifuges or filters performing the separation. Economic constraints usually become the over-riding issue. If an inexpensive source of thermal energy is available, i.e., waste steam, etc., the approach becomes commercially acceptable. For the specific case of coal slurry pipelines, since the dewatering plants will be located close to power generation stations, the preheating approach becomes especially attractive. The cost comparison shown in Fig. 7, which was prepared by a major West Coast engineering firm, contrasted screen bowl centrifuges and disc filters. In both alternatives, a thermal dryer was specified to produce a contract moisture of the final product. Sizing of the thermal dryer on the screen bowl alternative was substantially smaller than that of the filter, since the screen bowl was credited with a four to six percentage point decrease in product moisture compared to the disc. This comparison was made at ambient temperatures and reflected solely the mechanical dewatering capabilities of the two devices. No preheating of the feed was included in this particular comparison. Early generation screen bowl centrifuges operated under the principle of maximum bulk tonnage throughput. Second and third generation machines have followed the trends dictated by the coal industry calling for higher one-pass recoveries than previously demanded. The current generation of high-speed, long-bowl centrifuges permit recoveries of ultrafine solids directly comparable to commercial filter operation. On typical coal preparation plant feeds with nominal 600 E. an X 0 (28 mesh X 0) clean coal, recovery levels in excess of 99% are now obtained. The material that does escape the centrifuge and reports to the main effluent is typically -10 µm, high ash material. We have documented substantial beneficiation effects in screen bowl centrifuge performance with the cake product containing lower ash levels than the feed. On the referenced pipeline, coal tests performed on Western subbituminous coal, we found that the percentage of -10 µm material in the feed was six to eight times greater than normally encountered on eastern Appalachian seams. Our 45-t/h (50-stph) production centrifuge was never set up to maximize recovery. It was used as part of the two-stage dewatering circuit that had been chosen by designers of the proposed pipeline. Recoveries up to 95% were recorded. With field adjustments, that performance could most certainly have been improved. In contrast, manufacturers of the horizontal belt filter provided a small pilot-scale unit that operated on a side stream at the test facility. Numerous combinations of chemical additions were evaluated to determine those that had the best impact on filter performance. Whereas the screen bowl centrifuges operated without chemical addition, producing a dry, fluffy cake, the belt filter required two stages of chemical addition to attain satisfactory performance and high recovery levels. On the two-stage circuit that incorporated a belt press as the secondary

Jan 12, 1983

CONTENTS [The Nature of Strain Markings in Alpha Brass (paper by J. E. BURKE and C. S. BARRETT, Met. Tech. Feb. 1948. TP 2327). ......................... 2 X Ray Studies of Twinning and Untwinning in Magnesium Alloys (paper by J. B. HESS and R. L. DIETRICH, Met. Tech. Feb. 1948. TP 2328) ................ 11 ]

Jan 1, 1948

By H. P. Croft

[ ] Professor Hibbard's paper presents a very interesting theory concerning the influence of texture on the tendency of brass tube to stress-corrosion crack. I should like to present the result of some work done in 1941 which may throw further light on the subject. In the first place, in regard to his review of the influences of grain boundaries, we not only confirmed the findings which he quoted, but also were unable to crack single crystals of beta brass in the standard mercurous nitrate test in 50 hr under loads up to 18,500 psi. Samples containing two or more crystals of beta brass always cracked at grain boundaries and generally followed the same pattern as for alpha brass, although cracking occurred sooner than in alpha brass under the same conditions. Such a specimen is shown in Fig 4. Second, at the possible risk of repetition, we should like to call attention to the reported role of grain size as influencing the tendency to stress-corrosion crack. This phenomenon, originally mentioned by Dr. Allan Morris in the Transactions, AIME, 1931, is illustrated in Fig 5, showing the effect of variations in grain size on the tendency of drawn brass wires to crack under load in the mercurous nitrate solution. This was taken from my work published in Proceedings A.S.T.M. 41, (1941), 905.

Jan 1, 1948

By B. R. Queneau

[ ] B. R. QUENEAU-One of the difficulties in metallurgy has always been a lack of precision in measurement, and I think the authors are to be congratulated on developing a method which will give us an accurate and dependable quantitative estimate of the amount of retained austenite. O. ZMESKAL*-As Chairman Queneau said, this is indeed an ingenious and needed determination. We have seen figures presented of 1/2 pct retained austenite determined, and I would like to ask the authors the lower limits of this method. How far down do they feel they can go in improving the technique still more?

Jan 1, 1948

[ ] DISCUSSION F A LORIA*-The method of testing gun steel for resistance to surface cracking described in this paper was restricted to the examination of small, rod-shaped specimens The writer would like to point out the importance of other factors in producing defects in forged and bored gun tubes which would not be apparent in this investigation because of the nature of )he test Actual section size would accentuate the possibility of internal wall (bore) defects arising from unequal expansion between the internal and external wall surfaces on firing, resulting in internal tearing Checks and tears on the inside walls arise from internal tensions and nonuniformity on cooling, but the internal tearing can be reduced by using alloys of low expansion and of good thermal conductivity so as to reduce the difference between the outer and inner wall surfaces Also, the possibility of the location of inclusion segregates within a machined gun tube becomes more likely than in a small test specimen The effect of these nonmetallics on gun life and performance is evident when one realizes that the inclusions are soft yet brittle They reduce the amount of plastic deformation which can take place before cohesive failure occurs Once localized fracture has occurred at the position of a chain of these inclusions, a sharp notch (crack) is formed which produces stress conditions more favorable to cohesive failure than to plastic deformation These cracks aid erosion by providing channelways for the explosive gases, eventually leading to the tearing out or spalling of blocks of metal Oxidation of the surface may be partly responsible for the change in the surface of gun steel during firing observed by the author The appearance of burn on the surface is an indication that high temperatures were reached on firing, resulting in a slight oxidation of the surface Since the color of the oxidized film depends on both temperature and time, a higher temperature is required for a given color to form when it is caused by explosive heat, which acts for only an extremely short time at a given spot, than when it is caused by ordinary tempering The cross section of the gun steel specimen, Fig 16, illustrates that the repeated firing temperatures were high enough to cause

Jan 1, 1948

By R. M. Schuster, F. M. Benavides

Samuel G. Bonasso The article by Benavides and Schuster provides an in-depth study of three transportation alternatives for a four-mine complex in western Kentucky. The examination of aerial tramways was not undertaken as an alternative solution. We feel this is an oversight since industrial ropeways are competitive with both belt conveyance and overland truck hauling. In fact, there are aerial tramway systems, operational today, which are 100 years old and operating with some original components. Maybe unfortunately, there are no fixed rules or guidelines whereby the most cost-effective means of transporting and handling material for a given situation may be selected. Each situation must be evaluated so the variables that influence the selection of the desired alternative can be clearly defined. However, there are in-place industrial ropeway systems that have proven economically feasible over a range of 1.6-50 km (1-31 miles). The more difficult the terrain, the greater the cost efficiency.

Jan 1, 1983

By A. G. Sciulli, G. P. Ballock, K. K. Wu

Waste disposal underground is the most effective method when viewed from an environmental aspect. As costs of other methods of disposal continue to escalate, the cost effectiveness of underground disposal during the mining cycle becomes increasingly attractive. The use of concrete for sealing abandoned mines has proved to be suspect when associated with a relatively incompetent adjacent strata due to its shrinkage characteristics. Complete failure of the plug has been known to occur in some instances. A more effective, cost competitive seal can be obtained using pneumatically stowed material and incorporating a polyurethane grout, which has greater adhesion characteristics than concrete. Injection of the surrounding strata and of the stowed material helps to ensure an impervious barrier and prevent the plug from moving when subject to high pressure heads. When properly placed, impervious seals cause the old workings to flood, raise the mine pool level, and thus eventually eliminate the potential for oxidation, which is the primary cause of acidity in the water.

Jan 11, 1986

By R. J. Sweigard, R. V. Ramani

G.F. Learning The paper by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard is a wonderful description of the labyrinthine web that has been spun about the mining industry by energetic bureaucrats and politicians over the past 50 years. The remedy for the problem, however, is not more of the same, but less. That may be difficult for the industry to achieve, for it is not a technical solution but a political one. And the current fervor for more detailed planning at all levels of government and private enterprise has become deeply ingrained. The authors recommend the provision of more information about mining and mineral resources to "macro" (i.e., government) land use planners. They apparently overlook, however, the already strong tendency on the part of most government land use planners to consider themselves omniscient. Thus, giving them more information about the technical problems of mining will only make them want to get more and more involved in the "micro" (private, site specific) mine development and production plans of the individual mining firm. In fact, this has already happened at all levels of jurisdiction from municipal to federal government. Examples are legion. The most effective way to ameliorate the adverse impacts of government land use planning on existing and potential mining operations is to: (1) introduce greater flexibility in the definition of land use zones by local and state governments; (2) adopt realistic and relevant ambient environmental performance standards in governing relationships between mineral land uses and concurrent or subsequent nonmining land uses; (3) allow greater leeway for economic considerations in land use decisions in contrast to the explicit legalistic approach now in vogue; (4) recognize that all minerals are not the same and that sand and gravel mining should not be treated the same as underground metal mining, coal stripping, oil field production, or in situ leaching; and (5) eliminate the notion that mining operators should be responsible for determining in detail the use of land by subsequent owners of mined land. This last bit of conventional ethic really makes no more sense than requiring the builders of every shopping center or government office complex to provide detailed plans for the use of that land when its use for shopping or government is ended. Did the builder of Ebbetts Field plan for Brooklyn after the Dodgers went to Los Angeles? Should the developer of the Bingham Pit plan for suburban Salt Lake City after the copper mining goes to Chile? The nation's mining industry must address these questions before further bankrupting itself to provide more data to planners and spending thousands of dollars per acre to create land that when reclaimed is worth only a few hundred dollars per acre. Reply by R.V. Ramani and R.J. Sweigard We thank Mr. Leaming for his valuable contribution. His views on the problems of land use planning and mineral resources are most welcome additions to our paper. As the title indicates, our paper was more concerned with the impacts of land use planning on mineral resource conservation than with the details of the planning process. On the whole, his five recommendations would be helpful for mineral resource conservation. However, we would suggest that the argument he presents for his final recommendation does not address the differences between mining as a land use and commercial or institutional uses. We believe that this difference is the crux of the issue. We share Mr. Leaming's desire to ameliorate the adverse impacts of land use planning. Possibly the most detrimental impact is the loss of mineral resources. Any development, whether mineral or community, that does not give proper consideration to other resources can result in permanent loss or sterilization of resources. With proper planning, some of these losses can be avoided. As our paper indicated, one factor that limits the consideration of mineral resources, and ultimately leads to their sterilization, is the generally inadequate levels of resource characterization and understanding of the unique nature of mineral resources and mining operations. The last point raised by Mr. Leaming is also important. In terms of reclamation and land use planning in mining districts, we certainly do not advocate spending more than what the results are worth. The main thrust of the paper was to explore the avenues for conserving the mineral resources so that, at some appropriate time, the issue of mining and reclamation can still be addressed.

Jan 4, 1985

M.S. Azun I have many objections to the content of the author's paper. Before discussing it, however, I would like to repeat the property of semivariogram function. Second order stationary properties of regionalized variables (ReV's) such as semivariogram function y(h) are perfectly known in geostatistics. Also, the kriging equations in the language of mathematical statistics using second order stationary properties are well understood. However, the way to use the sample (estimated) semivariogram function in any one of the kriging procedures is vague. The sample semivariogram function is given as follows: [ ] where N is the total number of samples, Xi is the sample value at the i - th location, Xi+h is the sample value at the i + h - th location, and h is the distance among the samples. An estimation variance of sample semivariogram function of first lag is smaller than that of higher order lag. The theoretical semivariogram function reaches the variance of samples asymptotically. But this is not easily observable because of the larger variation involved in the estimate of semivariogram function. In general, an estimation procedure is done for h = 0, 1, 2, up to the greatest integer less than N/2, even though sample semivariogram function can be computable through N-1. After estimating semivariogram function, the critical question of how to model sample semivariogram function arises. As seen in the above equation, sample semivariogram function is discrete and can be smoothed by the model being selected. Therefore, modeling of sample semivariogram function is the most important step in geostatistics. It not only smoothes a discrete function but also affects the results of the kriging procedure. When the only aim is to model the semivariogram function, which is the basic point of the author's paper, one can employ any fitting techniques, such as curve fitting, or any arbitrary functions, which are called submodels in the paper. The term "arbitrary function" is used rather than "submodel" because there is no basic understanding of developing them. The author suggests that the sum of those submodels can also be used for the modeling of sample semivariogram function. The combination of any arbitrary functions brings many problems instead of giving an insight of the domain structure considered. The author used two arbitrary functions and the nugget effect in response to sample semivariogram function (Fig. 10). For the same example, he stated that the parameters involved in the mixed arbitrary function model can be accepted when the discrepancy between sample semivariogram function and the model is small visually. For verifying the fitting behavior of any selected model, one should not be contented with the visual satisfactory. Some statistical measure such as goodness of fit has to be used. The author's practice is no more than an exercise in curve fitting without any fundamental understanding or conceptualization of the underlying physical mechanism. Furthermore, the selection of any model is not an easy task if the purpose is the search for the "best" response to the observed second order properties of ReV's. I suggest that the Markovian model (Azun, 1983), on the basis of a theoretical understanding of underlying mechanism, which gives more information about the occurrence of regionalized variables, is used to respond all properties of ReV's. There are a lot of problems for modeling of one-dimensional sample semivariogram function. Thus, it is not appropriate to go to higher order dimensional sample semivariogram function modeling. In the meantime, I would recommend that one can connect the values of standardized sample semivariogram function rather than simple values of semivariogram function in the two-dimensional estimation. The standardized values can be computed in dividing the semivariogram function value by the number of sample pairs involved in each lag regardless of the directions. In conclusion, geostatistics is an interdisciplinary area in mining that uses the principles of mathematical statistics. Thus, it should not violate any probabilistic and statistical rules. When Matheron was developing the theory of geostatistical study in the early years of geostatistics, many mining people had a reservation accepting the geostatistical tools. However, this does not mean that we, the geostatisticians, might try to convince those people using some "strange" tools or rules as some authors implied (Baafi and Kim, 1984). Instead, we have to develop and explain the geostatistical tools staying only in the framework of statistical concepts and properties. References Azun, M.S., 1983, "Stochastic Process Modeling of Spatially Distributed Geostatistical Data," Columbia University, Ph.D. Thesis. Baafi, E.Y., and Kim, Y.C., 1984, "Discussion - Comparison of Different Ore Reserve Estimation Methods Using Conditional Simulation," Mining Engineering, Vol. 36, No. 3, p. 280. Reply by J.M. Rendu The interactive method proposed by Rendu allows practitioners to develop semivariogram models that take into account not only the numerical information obtained by sampling, but also highly significant additional information that often cannot be quantified. The geology of the deposit - including hypotheses concerning its genesis, sampling methods, assaying methods, and mathematical methods used to calculate the semivariograms - all have an influence on the numerical results obtained and on how these results should be interpreted. If all the information concerning the spatial distribution of values in a mineral deposit was contained in the sample values, it could be argued that statistical techniques alone would produce optimum models. However, this is rarely, if ever, the case. Methods that allow the user to take into account his experience and his geologic understanding of the deposit should not be rejected for the sake of theoretical statistical purity.

Jan 11, 1985

[ ]

Jan 1, 1946

By J. B. Gwiazda

S. Budirsky J.B. Gwiazda's article deals with an interesting problem that has not been studied thoroughly up to now. Gwiazda has proposed a technical solution that eliminates horizontal load imposed by the supports on the roof. That load is due to a discrepancy between the trajectories of the canopy and the overlying strata. It is true that the improved lemniscate guidance system proposed by Gwiazda could eliminate the horizontal load but, on the other hand, it would represent a higher cost of the supports, and it would complicate the already complicated mechanism of powered supports. That is why we must be convinced that the proposed improvement is actually needed. From that point of view, the following questions should be elucidated. As shown in Fig. 1, the point 0 travels along the curve a, which produces horizontal load on the roof in the direction of the coal face. As stated by Gwiazda, "such a high load is capable of destroying the roof above the support, causing rock debris to be scattered around the face." The results of our measurements carried out in coal mines of the Czechoslovak part of the Upper Silesian Coal Basin show that the convergence in the modern type of powered supports does not exceed several millimeters (not more than 10) per hour. Similar conclusions were drawn from field measurements performed in the Polish part of the Upper Silesian Coal Basin (see S. Romanowicz and H. Szopka in Proceedings, Scientific and Technical Symposium Simmex'85, Katowice, Poland, pp. 73-83). The small vertical closure of the supports also induces a small horizontal displacement of the canopy. In addition to this, the transmission of forces between the roof and the canopy is influenced by the layer of debris on it, i.e., the canopy slides without imposing a greater horizontal load on the roof. This was deduced from field measurements of Voest-Alpine F 4/4500 powered supports equipped with rams instead of the common front lemniscate links (denoted as 1 in Fig. 5). In these supports, the pressurizing of the space of piston rod (1a in Fig. 5) causes the rams to close, which induces horizontal load on the roof in a direction toward the coal face. After the setting of a support unit, the pressure in the piston rod space was found to drop, frequently to zero, because the small horizontal sliding between the canopy and the debris or inside the debris caused the horizontal reaction from the roof to fall to zero, although the debris were pressurized by vertical setting load. As a consequence, there was no horizontal load imposed by the canopy on the roof. A rise of the horizontal load was recorded only after the passage of the shearer and during lowering of the adjacent units. Thorough information on the results of the aforementioned field measurement is given in the paper, "Analysis of the performance of shield powered supports installed in a thick seam," published in Mechanizacja i automatyzacja gornictwa, 1982, No. 12, pp. 38-46. An English translation of the paper is available from the author. We have deduced from our observations that horizontal load imposed by the canopy on the roof in the direction toward the coal face is useful for roof control because it limits the displacement of the immediate roof toward the gob particularly during the rise working. We came to the conclusion that horizontal load on the roof toward the coal face should be induced on purpose. Could Mr. Gwiazda prove with the results of field measurements his contrary opinion? Has the small horizontal displacement of the canopy toward the face actually had an adverse effect on the roof? As shown in Fig. 2, during the setting of a support unit, the canopy imposes a horizontal load on the roof in the direction of the gob. In this case, I share Gwiazda's opinion that the horizontal load could have an adverse effect on the roof. Nevertheless, two important circumstances were neglected - the horizontal compliance of the supports and the interaction of adjacent units. The question of the compliance was analyzed precisely by I. Krumnacker in Gluckauf-Forschungshefte, 1984, No. 5, pp. 219-223. He found that due to the clearance between the hinge pins and the eyes of the sheild and due to the elasticity of the steel structure,

Jan 1, 1987

By J. B. Gwiazda

S.S. Peng The highlights of this paper are : • The shield supports with lemniscate links will exert a tangential force on the roof strata, causing unnecessary and harmful roof movements, thus damaging the roof structure. The principal source of the tangential force is the horizontal movement of the point O, the pivotal joint between the canopy and the caving shield. When the support height is changed during setting, the point O will move along a curve upward and rearward toward the gob. As a result, it produces a vertical movement, causing the roof to move up a distance of ?d, and a horizontal movement toward the gob, creating vertical fractures in the roof. • The major purpose for employing the lemniscate-link system is to protect the hydraulic legs against the action of the bending moments induced by the tangential force that causes deformation or destruction of the legs. • Based on these two points, the author suggested that, in order to eliminate the harmful effects of the lemniscate-link system and strengthen its advantageous features, a shield support with a new design of that mechanism has been developed. With the new design, the conventional rigid lemniscate links are replaced by hydraulic rams. When the pressure inside the rams reaches a certain level, the ram will yield.

Jan 12, 1986

By G. W. Heunisch

G.A. Carmody and L.B. Anderson We wish to comment on the paper by G.W. Heunisch (MINING ENGINEERING, January 1987), which raised several important points regarding treatment of acidic waste waters. This paper confirms, in part, tests carried out by Allyn Corp. Allyn is the manufacturer of the proprietary product Alka-Ment, one of the materials that Heunisch tested. The first point is the extreme sensitivity of the sedimentation rate on the nature of the treatment material used. This apparently results from differences in nucleation of the metal hydroxides, and is consistently higher for Alka-Ment. This decreased sludge volume is also observed when Alka-Ment is combined with flocculants, such as organic polymers (see Table 1). Our second point is to emphasize that Heunisch's work shows how dependent the sludge volume is on pH. It is common practice to overtreat AMD by raising pH to 9 or 10. This practice, in addition to being wasteful of material, actually decreases the density of the resulting sludge, probably by creating charged particles that do not readily coalesce. When treating with Alka-Ment, we recommend that the treatment be monitored by testing both pH and dissolved iron. For both tests, it is important to allow adequate time to elapse between treatment and measurement, so that dissolution of alkali, aerobic oxidation of iron, and precipitation of the metal hydroxides are nearly complete. Our tests have indicated that from 30 minutes to one hour is commonly required. Only in this way can a minimum pH be attained, with adequate treatment, denser sludge, and lower treatment rates achieved. Thirdly, Heunisch correctly recognizes that ASTM titration of Alka-Ment does not reflect the true treatment value available in a unit of Alka-Ment. Our work at Allyn indicates this is a most important consideration when evaluating various materials for the treatment of acidic waste waters. While we were unaware of Mr. Heunisch's work, we welcome comparisons between Alka-Ment and any competitive products readily available for field use. Allyn has hundreds of hours of laboratory and field data we are ready to share with interested parties treating acidic waste water.

Jan 9, 1987

By C. Meyer, J. J. Eidel

C. W. Hunt I wish to register strong disagreement with the choices of drilling sites chosen by the Continental Scientific Drilling Committee, while endorsing the stated objectives. Of special significance is the lack of any site involving the metals most needed today in the US, while 9 to 13 km of drilling are allocated to gold and silver districts and 11 to 17 km to base metal (mainly copper) districts. Why is nothing proposed for platinum group or chromite? Is this because the committee did not know of such a site? If so, I offer such a site in California (see Fig. 1). The mineralization shown in Table 1 occurs in a large peridotite body in western Tehama County, CA. Petrography has demonstrated unequivocal evidence of migrated PGE deposited in peridotite and chromite of hypabyssal nature. Active diapirism (due probably to serpentine buoyancy) above a reactivated mantle to surface conduit marks the position of the conduit. Young explosion breccia cemented loosely by volcanic glass and tuff demonstrates the significance of the conduit as the prime source of the various emissions. Deep drilling could result in major metals discoveries as well as shedding light on the grand questions of platinum group mineralization. What role water has played in this occurrence is not yet certain; but chlorine and asphaltite have been detected in and adjacent to native PGM, suggesting a major role for water. The explosion breccia suggests that this excellent site could overlie entrapped geothermal steam.

Jan 6, 1987

By Walter W. Bradley

(Three, papers included, in this discussion are classified as Mining Geology and also as one of the following-A, Metal Mining: B, Milling and Concentration: L, Geophysics. These papers are TP 2255, TP 2092 and TP 2038.) CONTENTS [PAGE Review of Fluorescence as Applied to Minerals, with Special Reference to Scheelite. (TP 1967 by J. W. VANDERWILT, Min. Tech., March 1946. Discussion by WALTER W. BRADLEY) I Geologic Interpretation of Magnetic Exploration on the Mesabi Range, Minnesota. (TP 2038 by R. B. H. JONES, Min. Tech., July 1946. Discussion by ROBERT B. SOSMAN) I A Technique for Photographing Difficult Subjects through a Petrographic Microscope. (TP 2092 by DONALD W. SCOTT, Min. Tech., Nov. 1946. Discussion by HORACE WINCHELL) 2 The Search for Concealed Deposits-a Reorientation of Philosophy. (TP 2146 by SAMUEL G. LASKY, Min. Tech., May 1947. Discussion by T. M. BRODERICK)3 Occurrence of Lead-zinc Ore at Iron King Mine, Prescott, Arizona. (TP 21 go by H. F. MILLS, Min. Tech., July 1947. Discussion by HUGH M. ROBERTS)3 Geologic Relations and New Ore Bodies of the Republic District, Washington. (TP 2197 by LAWRENCE B. WRIGHT, Min. Tech., July 1947. Discussion by AUGUSTUS LOCKE and J. A. RICHARDSON) 4 San Manuel Prospect. (TP 2255 by H. J. STEELE and G. R. RUBLY, Min. Tech., Sept. 1947. Discussion by L. KENNETH WILSON, ELDRED D. WILSON and the author) 5] Review of Fluorescence as Applied to Minerals, with Special Reference to Scheelite WALTER W. BRADLEY*-AS I recall, the first portable units for ultra-violet light of practical use with scheelite were developed at the Nevada-Massachusetts Tungsten Mine at Mill City, Nevada, and were used underground. Ultra-violet lamps are also installed there in the mill, above the gravity-concentration tables, for control observations. Geologic Interpretation of Magnetic Exploration on the Mesabi Range, Minnesota ROBERT B. SOSMAN*-When artificial precipitated magnetite is oxidized at a temperature in the vicinity of 100°C, the oxide is converted into a chocolate brown ferric oxide of the formula Fe2O3, free from ferrous iron, yet possessing the same magnetic susceptibility as the original Fe3O4. This form of Fe2O3 is variously called "ferromagnetic ferric oxide," " maghemite," or "gamma ferric oxide," and has been found as a natural mineral. If a body of magnetite in the Biwabik were to oxidize to this form, the oxidized and leached ore body might successfully conceal itself from Mr. Jones' survey by this ferromagnetic pretense. So far, gamma ferric oxide has not been found on the Minnesota iron ranges. I thought I had found some in the Hibbing pit in 1940, in a strongly magnetic specimen of soft ore differing in color from the prevailing hematite

Jan 1, 1947

By E. M. Spokes

A.B. Rushton The work and resulting publications of the Committee on Underground Coal Mine Safety and The President's Commission on Coal were appropriate at the time of publication. The statistics cited in the publications appeared to be valid, and the actions proposed by the committee had merit. Although the actions proposed to achieve further improvements in safety may have been worthy of repeating, to associate statistics (Table 1) that are seven to eight years old with company names is bad. Statistics are readily available from the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) and are usually within three months of being up to date. A review of the most recent Coal Controlling Co. Report will reveal significant changes in the rankings. The more recent statistics should have been cited, or at least compared with those used in the article. Westmoreland Coal Co. is listed as having a 21.1 disabling injury rate for the period (1/78-12/80). The disabling injury rate for the Company for the year ending 1985 was 7.4 for the underground mines and 6.25 for the total facilities. Through March 1986, the disabling rate for the underground mines was 2.86. The management and employees of Westmoreland Coal Co. are committed to safety. The improvements achieved over the past five years attest to that commitment. We are justifiably proud of the achievement and dislike being misrepresented as in the April 1986 article. Reply by E.M. Spokes I regret that the lapse of time since the original work gives a picture of safety practice that is no longer true today. That Westmoreland has reduced its disabling injury rate by 65% to 7.4 in 1985 is most commendable, and I congratulate you for this accomplishment. It is typical of the progress sought by the National Academy of Science and National Research Council when they funded the original study and published "Toward Safer Underground Coal Mines" in 1982. If a significant number of companies do as well as Westmoreland, the report will have served its purpose. Since the paper was primarily a condensation of the original report, it would not have been appropriate to seek access to later statistics. The purpose in seeking its publication at the time of presentation was to reach those who might have missed the original report. The fact that publication was delayed has not voided that purpose and may have reminded some who were aware of the original that its recommendations still apply to improvement of underground coal mine safety.

Jan 6, 1986

By Y. C. Kim, F. Szidarovszky

G.M. Philip and D.F. Watson The article cited above reflects the difficulty that is often encountered in interpreting different aspects of kriging. Baafi et al. write : "Due to negative kriging weights, negative block grades may be obtained in some extreme situations, which makes no practical sense." Their solution to this particular problem is to constrain the kriged estimates to data values that have positive weights, i.e., reduce the subset size contributing to the estimation. As Journel (1986, p. 133) has already observed, "Negative weights are no evil." Indeed, they are an ineluctable result of the Lagrangian multipliers in the system of simultaneous equations. The fact that data distant from the estimation point may be given negative weights simply means that the influence of such distant values must be negated because their influence is contradictory to closer values (as illustrated by Baafi et al. in their Figs. 3 and 4). Of course negative kriging weights applied to distant grade values will not in themselves induce negative grade at some central interpolation point. Negative grade values, rather, seem to be a particular artifact of automatic methods of estimation involving accu¬mulations (Philip and Watson, 1985a, 1985b, 1987b). The elimination of negative weights, suggested by Baafi et al., is likely to exacerbate a quite different problem of kriging and piecewise spline interpolation discussed elsewhere (Philip and Watson, 1987a). In interpolating large data sets of scattered observations, changing local subsets or neighborhoods must be selected automatically. Because of the mathematical formulation of kriging and spline interpolation, discontinuities then occur between closely-spaced estimation points as the subset used in the estimation changes. If this subset is reduced in number and size, the discontinuities will be amplified and more common. ? References Journel, A.G., 1986, "Geostatistics: models and tools for Earth Sciences," Journal of Mathematical Geology, Vol. 18, No. 1, pp. 119-139. Philip, G.M., and Watson, D.F., 1985a, "Theoretical aspects of grade-tonnage calculations," International Journal of Mining and Geological Engineering, Vol. 3, pp. 149-154. Philip, G.M., and Watson, D.F., 1985b, "A deterministic approach to computing ore reserves. I, Grade Estimation," Earth Resources Foundation, Occas. Paper 2, The University of Sydney, 24 pp. Philip, G.M., and Watson, D.F., 1987a, "Neighborhood discontinuities in bivariate interpolation of scattered observations," Mathematical Geology, Vol. 18, No. 1, pp. 69-74. Philip, G.M., and Watson, D.F., 1987b, "Estimating interactions of topological functions," Mathematical Geology, Vol. 18, (at press). Reply by Y. C. Kim Before replying to the comments by Philip and Watson, it is desirable to establish the original perspective of our paper, which was intended primarily for the practitioners of mining who possess a working knowledge of ordinary kriging. The paper tried to convey the following practical points: (1) there are circumstances in which one observes negative weights, (2) illustration of circumstances under which one can expect negative weights, (3) should one obtain a negative estimated grade, one can resort to elimination of negative weights using the technique outlined in the paper, and (4) one could normally select only the first layer of surrounding assays to estimate the block grade. Under such a perspective, most of the comments by Philip and Watson are irrelevant and misdirected. For example, the practitioners do not find it difficult to "interpret" the results of ordinary kriging, as evidenced by the fact that they have been using the results for nearly a decade. Nor are the practitioners concerned with discontinuities in estimated block grades due to changing neighborhood of assays during kriging. What matters to the practitioners is the fact that kriging does provide the best estimate among all the estimation tools available to them as of today. ?

Jan 2, 1987

By Y. C. Kim, I. S. Roditis, P. K. Medhi

P. Mousset-Jones I found the article most interesting and timely. I consider it imperative that mine case studies like this one are undertaken and published so that the practicing mining engineer and geologist can obtain a better idea of what is the preferred estimation and grade control technique to use, given the site-specific geology, grade distribution, etc. Mining companies, with operating gold mines, need to be encouraged to either initiate such a study in-house or support a research project by financing a graduate student at a local university. The latter method is preferable since it not only provides research support but also an excellent training opportunity for young mining engineers and geologists. Ideally, what is needed is exploration drill-hole, blasthole, and mine production data that can then be used to assess the efficiency of different estimation and grade control methods by comparing the results obtained using the drill/blasthole data with the actual production data. It is hoped that more mining companies will realize that the rewards from this kind of research greatly outweigh the sometimes perceived problem with releasing data to a university. I noticed that the authors used the blasthole data to represent the actual values, the validity of which relies heavily on the two key assumptions with regards to blasthole assays and in-pit ore-waste selection procedures. Could the authors comment in more detail on these assumptions and what criteria they used to check the validity of the assumptions? Since the article was published, have the authors had the opportunity to compare their estimates with the actual production data? It would be interesting to compare other estimation methods with OK and IK. For example, how well did the polygonal method used at the mine compare with the results given in the paper? I would like to mention that B.L. Kwa completed a similar study (Kwa and Mousset-Jones, 1986) using exploration drill-hole, blasthole, and production data from the Alligator Ridge mine in Nevada. The study compared a variety of estimation methods, including IK, and the final results are shown in Fig. 1. The IK method exhibits the smallest difference between estimated and production results and is closely followed by the indicator moving window (Ind MW) method. Reference Kwa, B.L., and Mousset-Jones, P., 1986, "Indicator Kriging Applied to a Gold Deposit in Nevada," Proceedings, Symposium on Ore Reserve Estimation Methods, Models, and Reality, CIMM Annual Meeting, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, May, pp. 185194. Reply by Y.C. Kim We do concur with Professor Mousset-Jones with respect to the merit of such case studies performed at a local university. In answer to his request for comment on the validity of the two key assumptions made in our paper, we can only say that these are reasonable assumptions that are very difficult to validate. The assumption of blasthole assays being accurate can be partially validated by a careful analysis of the nugget component of blasthole variograms. The assumption that the in-pit ore-waste selection procedure in use was an effective one can only be validated through comparison between the mine estimates of ounces of gold versus the actual recovered ounces of gold at the mill. Neither one of these two assumptions has been validated to date due to several reasons. For example, the mine went through a change in management since the study. Similarly, no compelling reasons have been presented to perform detailed variogram analysis of the blasthole data. We do, however, believe that the obtained results (i.e., indicator kriging performs better than OK in a highly skewed deposit) will remain the same in relative terms, regardless of how valid these two assumptions may be. The most recent comparative study by D. S. Lindsey of the Montana College of Mineral Science and Technology also shows a similar ranking between ordinary kriging versus probability kriging, which is an extended version of indicator kriging. Reference Lindsey, D.S., 1987, "A Comparative Study: Probability Kriging vs. Ordinary Kriging at the Golden Sunlight Mine," MS Thesis, Department of Mining Engineering, Montana College of Mineral Science and Technology, Butte, MT, May, 81 pp.

Jan 3, 1988

By C. F. de Mendonca, T. Kater, R. P. de Souza

The authors are to be commended for finding a material for pellets binding that we were unable to uncover during the investigations that led to US Patent No. 3,748,116, “Method for producing metallic iron powder from iron ore concentrate, ” July 24, 1973, by G.G. Reed, Jr., J.M. Karpinski, and S.V. Fox. This patent concerns a method of processing “super’ ‘-concentrates prepared from magnetite or “blue dust” into molding-grade metallic iron powder for use as a bulk commodity, in contrast to current methods which produce small batches that are custom-blended with additives and/or alloye to customer specifications. The one thing we had not found at that time was an organic binder (mineral-matter-free ) that would allow induration to produce hardened pellets that would survive SL/RN Direct Reduction. Peridur appears to provide this missing link needed for large scale (200 t/a, or 220,460 stpy) single line plant capacity consistent with a low market price to ensure greatly broadened use of metallic iron powder. I hope that industry will adopt this combination so that metallic iron powder usage can fulfill its potential

Jan 9, 1985